Grenfell Tower block disaster

Grenfell cladding - Banned or allowed?

Earlier, Chancellor Phillip Hammond said the cladding used to insulate Grenfell Tower is banned in Britain.

However, this has been countered by the managing director of a firm which produced rainscreen panels and windows for Grenfell Tower's cladding sub-contractor Harley Facades Ltd.

CEP Architectural Facades' John Cowley said: "Reynobond PE is not banned in the UK.

"Current building regulations allow its use in both low-rise and high-rise structures.

"The key question now is whether the overall design of the building's complete exterior was properly tested and subsequently signed off by the relevant authorities including the fire officer, building compliance officer and architect before commencement of the project."
 
Met Police commander Stuart Cundy adds that "the conditions due to the fire damage verge on indescribable, which is why this will be such a lengthy operation taking weeks to complete".

He says: "We must also prepare people for the terrible reality that some people may not be identified due to the intensity of the fire."

On the number of those feared dead, he adds: "I must consider the fact that there may be others in the building who, for whatever reason have not been reported to us.

"There is also a real possibility that there may be people in the building that no one knows are missing."

http://news.sky.com/story/west-lond...-confirms-there-have-been-fatalities-10915010
 
karen7 said:
Grenfell cladding - Banned or allowed?

Earlier, Chancellor Phillip Hammond said the cladding used to insulate Grenfell Tower is banned in Britain.

However, this has been countered by the managing director of a firm which produced rainscreen panels and windows for Grenfell Tower's cladding sub-contractor Harley Facades Ltd.

CEP Architectural Facades' John Cowley said: "Reynobond PE is not banned in the UK.

"Current building regulations allow its use in both low-rise and high-rise structures.

"The key question now is whether the overall design of the building's complete exterior was properly tested and subsequently signed off by the relevant authorities including the fire officer, building compliance officer and architect before commencement of the project."
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Interesting kaz.
I was involved in a discussion with Blue Anorak and Silverfox earlier which indicated that based on the building regulations the cladding is not banned and in fact meets the requirements of British Standards in high rise buildings.
 
Gelsons Dad said:
"Local People"
She is clearly not informed. If you want to know what has been done why not look for official information rather than uninformed hearsay?
https://www.rbkc.gov.uk/newsroom/all-council-statements/grenfell-tower-latest
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The local K&C council has done such a great job that the Chief Executive of Lewisham is now running the relief effort helped by other London Councils plus the Red Cross. It's alright putting out statements but people need urgent help on the ground and even rescue professionals are criticising the efforts so far.
 
Prestwich_Blue said:
The local K&C council has done such a great job that the Chief Executive of Lewisham is now running the relief effort helped by other London Councils plus the Red Cross. It's alright putting out statements but people need urgent help on the ground and even rescue professionals are criticising the efforts so far.
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Seems to be a piss poor effort with little leadership or communication. Dire.
 
Prestwich_Blue said:
The local K&C council has done such a great job that the Chief Executive of Lewisham is now running the relief effort helped by other London Councils plus the Red Cross. It's alright putting out statements but people need urgent help on the ground and even rescue professionals are criticising the efforts so far.
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While I agree the K&G council appear to have been poor that doesn't change the facts as posted. The discussion was about housing the victims which has been done. What I would also say is that while many people have been willing to help by donating food, it clearly isn't needed. This is what happens when people just act without thought. They have wasted money which could have been put to much better use if they had been able to control the urge to just do something and instead done something useful.

I'm also at a loss as to what the Mayor has been doing throughout this. I would have thought this is exactly the sort of event where the Mayoral office should step in and coordinate.
 
Gelsons Dad said:
While I agree the K&G council appear to have been poor that doesn't change the facts as posted. The discussion was about housing the victims which has been done. What I would also say is that while many people have been willing to help by donating food, it clearly isn't needed. This is what happens when people just act without thought. They have wasted money which could have been put to much better use if they had been able to control the urge to just do something and instead done something useful.

I'm also at a loss as to what the Mayor has been doing throughout this. I would have thought this is exactly the sort of event where the Mayoral office should step in and coordinate.
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He seems to me to be looking to point the finger rather than contribute to the order.
 
Gelsons Dad said:
While I agree the K&G council appear to have been poor that doesn't change the facts as posted. The discussion was about housing the victims which has been done. What I would also say is that while many people have been willing to help by donating food, it clearly isn't needed. This is what happens when people just act without thought. They have wasted money which could have been put to much better use if they had been able to control the urge to just do something and instead done something useful.

I'm also at a loss as to what the Mayor has been doing throughout this. I would have thought this is exactly the sort of event where the Mayoral office should step in and coordinate.
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I quite agree with you there. I don't think anyone in officialdom has come out of this with any credit. Even the newly elected Labour MP seems to have come over all Diane Abbott and is keeping a very low profile. That might be something to do with the fact she was a member of the Tenants' Management Organisation that managed social housing in K&C.
 
Yeah print a photo of a smiling fire fighter on your front page. Not at all insensitive. Turds

_96541956_telegraph.jpg
 
PinkFinal said:
Yeah print a photo of a smiling fire fighter on your front page. Not at all insensitive. Turds

_96541956_telegraph.jpg
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Whys it insensitive? It looks to be a human interest story on a firefighter that was called to the blaze within her first week in the job.
 
I would think the photo was used to show the innocence of a new fire fighter trying to serve and protect shattered in a matter of days by a tragedy.

Is it poor taste? I guess someone could draw that conclusion while families still suffer.

But it's the reality of a bad situation.
 
PinkFinal said:
Just thought it was a bit weird in the circumstances. Not looking to be outraged or offended.
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You'd think someone in the photo editor's team might have thought it odd. Who gave them the story?

It does point up one problem. Fires are down thanks to smoke alarms and other measures - so it's been possible to cut the number of firefighters by half - but it means firefighters get less experience dealing with real fires.
 
Prestwich_Blue said:
I quite agree with you there. I don't think anyone in officialdom has come out of this with any credit. Even the newly elected Labour MP seems to have come over all Diane Abbott and is keeping a very low profile. That might be something to do with the fact she was a member of the Tenants' Management Organisation that managed social housing in K&C.
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I think that any Council would be at a loss to do all the right things when such a tragedy unfolds.
The emergency services await and train for such happenings but I don't think this is true of officialdom generally is it ?

The phrase ´lessons have been learnt´is part of their pattern but in all honesty other than the emergency services I doubt any will come up smelling of roses from this tragedy. They will make political points and allocate blame elsewhere but they are not fit for purpose in emergency conditions, makes me think that the army would be better suited to take charge when something like this happens. Thank god for our real heroes (the emergency services).
 
Len Rum said:
Interesting kaz.
I was involved in a discussion with Blue Anorak and Silverfox earlier which indicated that based on the building regulations the cladding is not banned and in fact meets the requirements of British Standards in high rise buildings.
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There was some dispute on it not being able to be used above 40 feet as per other countries, but it's certainly not on the data sheets. Shadow ministers are on the same tack this morning ( that it can't be used above 40 feet) so the regs are at least confusing.
 
BlueAnorak said:
There was some dispute on it not being able to be used above 40 feet as per other countries, but it's certainly not on the data sheets. Shadow ministers are on the same tack this morning ( that it can't be used above 40 feet) so the regs are at least confusing.
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I stand to be corrected but is it possible that the 40 feet vertical limit is to ensure that there are breaks in the chimney effect which effectively ensures extra construction work if used in tower blocks etc.?
If the method statement for the installation does not include these construction breaks then an FR containing cladding should have been used because a proper risk assessment would have indicated its requirement.

Maybe mistakes in interpretation could be made but at least it explains why an apparently inferior cladding could be included onto a list of approved ones.
 
SilverFox2 said:
I think that any Council would be at a loss to do all the right things when such a tragedy unfolds.
The emergency services await and train for such happenings but I don't think this is true of officialdom generally is it ?
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I believe all councils have or are expected to have contingency plans in place for emergencies like this. Manchester certainly did in 1996 and incidents like the 7/7 bombings would only have heightened that requirement.
 
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