Guardiola fined £20,000 for wearing yellow ribbon (p140)

[Henkeman]

I thought Pep had already stated his position that he is a human first and a manager comes second to that. If he did not receive the backing of the club on this I am certain he would leave rather than back down. The people saying he is in the wrong and should toe the line I think are going to be disappointed because I think this issue is much bigger than football for Pep. None of us know how this is going to play out, just hope some form of compromise can be found.

I'm a human first too, but given part of what I do involves tourism to Myanmar, I might be aghast at what's going on with the Rohingya, but it wouldn't especially please one of my employers if I started screaming about it publicly.

 

[SebastianBlue]

Maybe they should change their treatment of humans in the UAE?

Just a thought like.

I think that’s where the nuance of the reasonable supporter’s argument can be difficult for rather obtuse media outlets (most of them) and rival club supporters (as I found yesterday in the pub): that we can hold that Pep is within his rights to wear the yellow ribbon to advocate, that the FA are within their current rights to sanction him for it (as much as those actions are dubiously inconsistent in the context of other campaigns they tolerate/support, like the rainbow laces campaign you and @Shaelumstash have rightly referenced), and actual journalists are within their rights to call out the logical implications of the entire affair, including highlighting the ways in which UAE governance (related to our club via our ownership, as much as some may not want to admit that) is not consistent with Pep’s ideals.

I’ve also generally found that trying to highlight the lack of real critical commentary on the operations, ownership, and state affiliations of other clubs as a fairly strong indicator of the underlying racism and/xenophobia within the media (and consumptive) culture is also a difficult pill to swallow for many.

 

[Bozo]

Alas, whichever way you look at this, its about our club not the man, rags dippers, spuds chavs or tarquins and there would not have been a peep form the FA, anything they can cling onto to try and hurt our club they will use, Pep provided it for them, Pep wont back down thats for sure, stadium ban? keep fining him? I reckon the FA have made a rod for their own back here and I dare say one or two within that bastion of corruption will wish they had kept their gobs shut now..!

Lay off the weed mate, rules are rules and Pep broke one. I'm all for him to keep wearing it and stick two fingers up to the FA, but there's no conspiracy here.

 

[Shaelumstash]

It's not the fear of prosecution, it's more subtle than that. Any deviation from the prevailing orthodoxy is 'not tolerated'. Present a coherent argument why you disagree with the current mainstream thinking on Climate Change, Brexit, Multiculturalism or Gender issues, as examples, and your job could be in jeopardy. Many academics who support Brexit wouldn't dare speak out. Polls consistently under estimate Conservative party voting intentions because people are afraid to identify as Tories.

The most insidious case in recent times is the sexual abuse scandals in Rotherham and Newcastle, where hundreds of young women (many of them under age) were sexually abused by groups of British born Muslim men of Pakistani origin. The problem was identified several years ago but no action was taken because the people who could have put a stop to it didn't want to be seen as racist. That's political correctness gone mad. Many girls who had their lives blighted could have been spared their ordeal if we didn't live in fear of being accused of being racist or sexist.

(The fact that I've reread what I've written and am hesitating about posting it is an indication of the extent of the problem.)

Freedom of speech isn't something we have or we don't have it's something we need to be vigilant about protecting, all of us, all the time.

This thread definitely isn't the place for this debate.

I don’t think Brexit and multiculturalism were very good examples to use. The vast majority of the national press supported Brexit, and so did 52% of the country.

The reason no economists come out in support of it is because there are no legitimate economic arguments supporting it. Liam Fox’s own team have come out today and said it’s “like swapping a three course meal for the promise of a bag of crisps in the future.”

The vote was won on a rejection of multiculturalism, without any question. And strangely enough, it was often areas with the lowest racial diversity that voted most strongly for Brexit. Voting through fear of what they don’t know.

The Rotherham and Newcastle incidents are horrendous. It’s a huge leap to put them down to a lack of free speech rights though. Tommy Robinson and others were banging on about those grooming gangs and weren’t prosecuted for saying so.

But it’s important to point out that those grooming gangs were a bunch of sick, twisted individuals. Their race is irrelevant. There was clearly a “white male showbiz grooming gang” in the 1970s and a white male grooming gang in football in the 80s, but no one mentions their race because it’s the majority. Their race is irrelevant.

They got away with it because people were scared to speak out. It’s not just a race / PC issue.

There are grooming gangs from all races, they’re all as sick as each other. But they should be judged on their actions and intentions, not on their race.

 

[Dracket]

It's not the fear of prosecution, it's more subtle than that. Any deviation from the prevailing orthodoxy is 'not tolerated'. Present a coherent argument why you disagree with the current mainstream thinking on Climate Change, Brexit, Multiculturalism or Gender issues, as examples, and your job could be in jeopardy. Many academics who support Brexit wouldn't dare speak out. Polls consistently under estimate Conservative party voting intentions because people are afraid to identify as Tories.

The most insidious case in recent times is the sexual abuse scandals in Rotherham and Newcastle, where hundreds of young women (many of them under age) were sexually abused by groups of British born Muslim men of Pakistani origin. The problem was identified several years ago but no action was taken because the people who could have put a stop to it didn't want to be seen as racist. That's political correctness gone mad. Many girls who had their lives blighted could have been spared their ordeal if we didn't live in fear of being accused of being racist or sexist.

(The fact that I've reread what I've written and am hesitating about posting it is an indication of the extent of the problem.)

Freedom of speech isn't something we have or we don't have it's something we need to be vigilant about protecting, all of us, all the time.

This thread definitely isn't the place for this debate.

If this debate continues elsewhere, please someone kindly post a link to it. Very enjoyable and enlightening stuff. Thank you

 

[SebastianBlue]

I don’t think Brexit and multiculturalism were very good examples to use. The vast majority of the national press supported Brexit, and so did 52% of the country.

The reason no economists come out in support of it is because there are no legitimate economic arguments supporting it. Liam Fox’s own team have come out today and said it’s “like swapping a three course meal for the promise of a bag of crisps in the future.”

The vote was won on a rejection of multiculturalism, without any question. And strangely enough, it was often areas with the lowest racial diversity that voted most strongly for Brexit. Voting through fear of what they don’t know.

The Rotherham and Newcastle incidents are horrendous. It’s a huge leap to put them down to a lack of free speech rights though. Tommy Robinson and others were banging on about those grooming gangs and weren’t prosecuted for saying so.

But it’s important to point out that those grooming gangs were a bunch of sick, twisted individuals. Their race is irrelevant. There was clearly a “white male showbiz grooming gang” in the 1970s and a white male grooming gang in football in the 80s, but no one mentions their race because it’s the majority. Their race is irrelevant.

They got away with it because people were scared to speak out. It’s not just a race / PC issue.

There are grooming gangs from all races, they’re all as sick as each other. But they should be judged on their actions and intentions, not on their race.

Great post.

Though, I fear we’re beginning to spin away from the thread topic again.

 

[LlunaBlava]

Completely agree. I'm from Catalonia and Pep is not going to take a step back. In addition, the Premier is almost in the pocket, so the fines or sanctions do not believe that it influences the team. The problem would be if we arrived in August and the prisoners are still in jail, there I think there would be a problem.

 

[Blue Til Death]

Lay off the weed mate, rules are rules and Pep broke one. I'm all for him to keep wearing it and stick two fingers up to the FA, but there's no conspiracy here.

The FA are not completely sure what their own rules are, if they were they would not sanction the other forms of so called political statements made by wearing coloured laces & poppies... Weed makes me sick, cant tolerate it at all, any posts you see that appear, like im on weed, I'm not, im either ill informed, have a skewed opinion or I'm just plain wrong...!

 

[Academica]

I'm a human first too, but given part of what I do involves tourism to Myanmar, I might be aghast at what's going on with the Rohingya, but it wouldn't especially please one of my employers if I started screaming about it publicly.

I don't think his purpose in this is to try and please his employers.

 

[Henkeman]

I don't think his purpose in this is to try and please his employers.

Precisely. City won't be best pleased behind the scenes - particularly because of the rash of comment about the UAE it's caused.