1_barry_conlon
Well-Known Member
Read Desmond Morris's book The Soccer Tribe.
There's a lot explained in there.
There's a lot explained in there.
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"Hate" at football. Why?
- Thread starter The Pink Panther
- Start date
Football is and always has been tribal.
It's not unique in itself it's the same for sports across the world.
Your sport, your club, it's not something (most) can turn on and off and have half feelings about.
We are the permanent part of the club. Players come and go, managers the same, but you stay, you always stay, win or loose.
Nobody gives more, nobody is more committed than us, and we expect the same commitment from them.
We pay for tickets, travel, jerseys etc. We support them well enough that it can make a difference.
Ya there are times when you stand there in the most unjust tragedies and think does this really matter at all. But mainly it's all about the game. And it's an escape in a way from reality. That we can still have heroes at dream, no matter how old we are or how bad things get, it's something to hold on to.
You look back at some of the greatest moments of history and sport is at the heart of it.
Be it the Christmas truce at WW1 when they played football in the trenches, to the 1968 Olympics with the power salute, the Miracle on Ice, 1958 England honored their rugby fixture in Ireland at the height of The Troubles, when South Africa won the rugby world cup in 1995. These moments changed history. Sport is that, it can be everything.
In times of desperation, recession, sport is what has brought us together when everything else tries to tear us apart.
You can't have that without feeling the other side of it as well.
Sport can be everything for everyone. It's for the underdog and the downtrodden, the written off, for everyone and anyone who cares enough for it to matter that little bit more.
So when teams you pay a lot to see, that you commit a lot of your time and money to, is taken over by incompetence, be it from the players/management/owners. People don't react well. Why should they. No I'm not condoning insults and violence, and throwing things on the pitch at players, but it's a mob mentality. 1 does it and it's like sheep. Not justifying it, but understandable where it comes from.
Sometimes it gets out of control (and that does seem to be unique to football) but you can't be ecstatic and desperately sad without being angry and furious.
Some of the actions are disgraceful, but you give that much time and money, it's easy to see why they can get that way.
They get paid a ridiculous amount of money, you expect them to care. Expect them to give a crap, to give heart and at least try. Blackburn fans know they wont win the league or win every game, or many games for that matter, but all they want is a bit of effort. If they can get 100% effort from their team, management etc, they can't ask for anything more.
Instead they have incompetence, carelessness, indifference from club itself so that will lead to a building hate and frustration.
Things are pretty bad at the moment, money wise, we don't have much, but we'll keep turning up and keep the faith and hope beyond hope they give a damn, and if they try than we'll cheer them on like they fixed the recession, but the same goes for if they don't. It will be met with by hate and hostility.
Because at the end of the day, it's been their dream to do well with the club for 5 minutes, we've had a life worth of dreaming that has built up to these moments we're in now. Who are they to throw it away.
Have we lost ourselves that much, forgotten who we were, what made us the team we are today, have you lost that much touch with the reality shared by 95% of football in England, because we are part of that elite 5%.
We are the lucky ones..and we usen't be..it's sad to see that some people have forgotten that.
It's not unique in itself it's the same for sports across the world.
Your sport, your club, it's not something (most) can turn on and off and have half feelings about.
We are the permanent part of the club. Players come and go, managers the same, but you stay, you always stay, win or loose.
Nobody gives more, nobody is more committed than us, and we expect the same commitment from them.
We pay for tickets, travel, jerseys etc. We support them well enough that it can make a difference.
Ya there are times when you stand there in the most unjust tragedies and think does this really matter at all. But mainly it's all about the game. And it's an escape in a way from reality. That we can still have heroes at dream, no matter how old we are or how bad things get, it's something to hold on to.
You look back at some of the greatest moments of history and sport is at the heart of it.
Be it the Christmas truce at WW1 when they played football in the trenches, to the 1968 Olympics with the power salute, the Miracle on Ice, 1958 England honored their rugby fixture in Ireland at the height of The Troubles, when South Africa won the rugby world cup in 1995. These moments changed history. Sport is that, it can be everything.
In times of desperation, recession, sport is what has brought us together when everything else tries to tear us apart.
You can't have that without feeling the other side of it as well.
Sport can be everything for everyone. It's for the underdog and the downtrodden, the written off, for everyone and anyone who cares enough for it to matter that little bit more.
So when teams you pay a lot to see, that you commit a lot of your time and money to, is taken over by incompetence, be it from the players/management/owners. People don't react well. Why should they. No I'm not condoning insults and violence, and throwing things on the pitch at players, but it's a mob mentality. 1 does it and it's like sheep. Not justifying it, but understandable where it comes from.
Sometimes it gets out of control (and that does seem to be unique to football) but you can't be ecstatic and desperately sad without being angry and furious.
Some of the actions are disgraceful, but you give that much time and money, it's easy to see why they can get that way.
They get paid a ridiculous amount of money, you expect them to care. Expect them to give a crap, to give heart and at least try. Blackburn fans know they wont win the league or win every game, or many games for that matter, but all they want is a bit of effort. If they can get 100% effort from their team, management etc, they can't ask for anything more.
Instead they have incompetence, carelessness, indifference from club itself so that will lead to a building hate and frustration.
Things are pretty bad at the moment, money wise, we don't have much, but we'll keep turning up and keep the faith and hope beyond hope they give a damn, and if they try than we'll cheer them on like they fixed the recession, but the same goes for if they don't. It will be met with by hate and hostility.
Because at the end of the day, it's been their dream to do well with the club for 5 minutes, we've had a life worth of dreaming that has built up to these moments we're in now. Who are they to throw it away.
Have we lost ourselves that much, forgotten who we were, what made us the team we are today, have you lost that much touch with the reality shared by 95% of football in England, because we are part of that elite 5%.
We are the lucky ones..and we usen't be..it's sad to see that some people have forgotten that.
manclad
Well-Known Member
100% this.1_barry_conlon said:Read Desmond Morris's book The Soccer Tribe.
There's a lot explained in there.
I've mentioned this book in the past but got very little response to my post.
Apart from the tribalism that Desmond Morris talks about,the other main point he makes is that football has become a way of expressing our suppressed hunting instinct.
Modern Homo Sapiens has existed for 100,000 years and apart from the last few hundred years (post industrial revolution)hunting was a major role in mankinds existence.
As civilization and city live took hold,hunting became more of a pastime than a way of life.
Then field sports were replaced by arena sports,but they still involved killing- gladatorial games etc.and these were followed in later times by bull fighting etc.
Eventually,society wanted to end the blood letting and modern arena sports were invented,with football leading the way in the crowded Victorian cities.
Morris says that the team work required to be a successful football team is reminiscent of the team work that was required by early hunters to make a kill and thus survive,and that scoring a goal is the modern equivalent of a kill,with everbody happy and cheering when either occurs.
So just remember,the next time you celebrate a goal scored by Mario/Edin/Sergio you are really doing exactly what our ancestors did for thousands of years when they had a good hunt.
stimo
Well-Known Member
imagine not hating referees or opposition players/managers/fans, would get boring for some. this is why people dont want video technology, because you cant moan at the referee and that is half the reason people go football!
The Pink Panther
Well-Known Member
- Joined
- 22 May 2005
- Messages
- 16,213
manclad said:100% this.1_barry_conlon said:Read Desmond Morris's book The Soccer Tribe.
There's a lot explained in there.
I've mentioned this book in the past but got very little response to my post.
Apart from the tribalism that Desmond Morris talks about,the other main point he makes is that football has become a way of expressing our suppressed hunting instinct.
Modern Homo Sapiens has existed for 100,000 years and apart from the last few hundred years (post industrial revolution)hunting was a major role in mankinds existence.
As civilization and city live took hold,hunting became more of a pastime than a way of life.
Then field sports were replaced by arena sports,but they still involved killing- gladatorial games etc.and these were followed in later times by bull fighting etc.
Eventually,society wanted to end the blood letting and modern arena sports were invented,with football leading the way in the crowded Victorian cities.
Morris says that the team work required to be a successful football team is reminiscent of the team work that was required by early hunters to make a kill and thus survive,and that scoring a goal is the modern equivalent of a kill,with everbody happy and cheering when either occurs.
So just remember,the next time you celebrate a goal scored by Mario/Edin/Sergio you are really doing exactly what our ancestors did for thousands of years when they had a good hunt.
But a few years ago when Pearce was in charge, we played Scunthorpe in the FA Cup 3rd round at home.
I took my then nine year old, sat in my normal seat and was surrounded by non seasoncard holders.
There was one lad, probably around 18 years old, sat two rows behind us and as soon as Scunthorpe scored and took the lead, he went absolutely mental.
"Fucking **** Pearce. You fucking twat. See that Pearce, you fucking wanker. Fucking shit. Fucking resign" .....you get the picture
When Fowler equalised, this idiot didn't celebrate, he sat there like we'd lost. Fowler scored a second and this lad got up and left
So to say we celebrate like hunters when our team scores, isn't correct. This lad was more happy for us to starve
manclad
Well-Known Member
The Pink Panther said:manclad said:100% this.1_barry_conlon said:Read Desmond Morris's book The Soccer Tribe.
There's a lot explained in there.
I've mentioned this book in the past but got very little response to my post.
Apart from the tribalism that Desmond Morris talks about,the other main point he makes is that football has become a way of expressing our suppressed hunting instinct.
Modern Homo Sapiens has existed for 100,000 years and apart from the last few hundred years (post industrial revolution)hunting was a major role in mankinds existence.
As civilization and city live took hold,hunting became more of a pastime than a way of life.
Then field sports were replaced by arena sports,but they still involved killing- gladatorial games etc.and these were followed in later times by bull fighting etc.
Eventually,society wanted to end the blood letting and modern arena sports were invented,with football leading the way in the crowded Victorian cities.
Morris says that the team work required to be a successful football team is reminiscent of the team work that was required by early hunters to make a kill and thus survive,and that scoring a goal is the modern equivalent of a kill,with everbody happy and cheering when either occurs.
So just remember,the next time you celebrate a goal scored by Mario/Edin/Sergio you are really doing exactly what our ancestors did for thousands of years when they had a good hunt.
But a few years ago when Pearce was in charge, we played Scunthorpe in the FA Cup 3rd round at home.
I took my then nine year old, sat in my normal seat and was surrounded by non seasoncard holders.
There was one lad, probably around 18 years old, sat two rows behind us and as soon as Scunthorpe scored and took the lead, he went absolutely mental.
"Fucking **** Pearce. You fucking twat. See that Pearce, you fucking wanker. Fucking shit. Fucking resign" .....you get the picture
When Fowler equalised, this idiot didn't celebrate, he sat there like we'd lost. Fowler scored a second and this lad got up and left
So to say we celebrate like hunters when our team scores, isn't correct. This lad was more happy for us to starve
Ha,you always get 1 idiot who ruins 100,000 years of anthropological history.
As you say Pink Panther in stone age times this guy would have been left to starve by the other members of the tribe/hunters.
manclad
Well-Known Member
Remember in Crocodile Dundee when Mick asked the black chauffeur if he was "Tribal"st. blue said:I had a mate in college, he was a maori from New Zealand.
He said he'd never experienced anywhere in the world as tribal as the UK.
"Yeah - Harlem Warlords" LOL.