Have we improved?

[bluemanc]

You've avoided the question nicely though, how does a game between West Ham and whoever they're playing on the last day of the season affect how we've performed during the season.

How does a match we are not involved in make our performances better or worse?

we've performed during the season

You changed your question the 2nd time you asked,bit sloppy for you mate.
Sorry!

 

[GStar]

Because 6th is better than 9th

So if West Ham lose, does that mean we have performed better over the course of the season?

Or if they win, have our performances been worse?

How does a game we haven't been involved in affect how we can assess how we have performed?

Becasue, overall, we're competing against them and 19 other teams for the highest leaague position. The value of "1pt" goes up and down each season depending on opposition but league position always stays the same.

We can win more games and get more points than a previous season, but if the opposition are of a higher standard, we could get relegated... thats not progression, finishing higher in the league, year on year, is.

 

[moomba]

We can win more games and get more points than a previous season, but if the opposition are of a higher standard, we could get relegated... thats not progression, finishing higher in the league, year on year, is.

It comes down to two separate things I think, I do see you're point to an extent but I just don't think league position is that important a factor if you are measuring improvement.

It's almost like F1 racing, you can be in second spot, and the leader crashes out. You win the race, but it's not because you've performed any better. It's because of something that you had no influence on at all. Have you performed better for someone esle crashing, I would say not.

Are you happier about finishing 1st regardless of how it happened? Absolutely, but if you are measuring improvement I just don't see how you have performed any better for someone else failing.

One thing I will say though, if you finish higher in the league, year on year, or whether you increase your points tally, year on year. It will result in the same outcome, and that is what we've all got to hope for.

 

[Joycee Banercheck]

Because 6th is better than 9th

So if West Ham lose, does that mean we have performed better over the course of the season?

Or if they win, have our performances been worse?

How does a game we haven't been involved in affect how we can assess how we have performed?

No if West Ham lose it'll be because I backed them.

I understand what you are saying, but wouldn't you feel that you'd performed better over the season if you finished higher than last year? Isn't that what people are expecting us to accomplish, a better finish to the previous year?

We could win a cup by going through on penalties after a lack-lustre performance in every round, but we'd still have won the cup even though we'd played better in games in the previous years. That'd be better than gettting knocked out in the semis.

 

[moomba]

I understand what you are saying, but wouldn't you feel that you'd performed better over the season if you finished higher than last year? Isn't that what people are expecting us to accomplish, a better finish to the previous year?

I think people do expect us to finish higher and higher, but I honestly don't think I would feel that we have performed better this season if we finish a position higher and five points lower than last season (I actually think we'll finish lower on points and league position, maybe equal on position at best).

We could win a cup by going through on penalties after a lack-lustre performance in every round, but we'd still have won the cup even though we'd played better in games in the previous years. That'd be better than gettting knocked out in the semis.

If we win a cup, I would say our performances have been better than any year we haven't won a cup. So yeah, that would be better than getting knocked out in the semi's because our results would have proven that.

 

[scousemanc]

1. Have we improved in terms of final league position?
2. Have we improved in terms of number of points?
3. Have we improved in terms of having a better squad of players?
4. Have we improved in terms of number of goals scored?
5 Have we improved in terms of progression in cup competitions?
6. Have we got an improved manager?
7. Have we improved in terms of entertainment?
8. Have we improved in terms of the number of players who suck their thumb after scoring?

(I realise this won't move the argument forward but I enjoyed writing it)

 

[Joycee Banercheck]

I understand what you are saying, but wouldn't you feel that you'd performed better over the season if you finished higher than last year? Isn't that what people are expecting us to accomplish, a better finish to the previous year?

I think people do expect us to finish higher and higher, but I honestly don't think I would feel that we have performed better this season if we finish a position higher and five points lower than last season (I actually think we'll finish lower on points and league position, maybe equal on position at best).

We could win a cup by going through on penalties after a lack-lustre performance in every round, but we'd still have won the cup even though we'd played better in games in the previous years. That'd be better than gettting knocked out in the semis.

If we win a cup, I would say our performances have been better than any year we haven't won a cup. So yeah, that would be better than getting knocked out in the semi's because our results would have proven that.

4th place this year has a maximum of 79 points if they win all their games, which they probably won't. Last year, 4th got 76. If whoever takes fourth place gets less than 76 points this year, they've achieved 4th place. Can't see 4th place geting more than 76 points this year (7 straight wins), it's just how the league works out. It's relative.

 

[DontLookBackInAnger]

It all comes down to the UEFA cup we win it, then it's been a great year we don't and fail to qualify for Europe next year and Hughes will be very lucky to have this job.

 

[Biglebowski]

Yes i think we have. Perhaps not reflected in our league position, but it's been a difficult season, the team just looks better to me. Feeling very positive about next season already.

Your optimism for next season might be short lived.

It looks like we are putting all our eggs in to the UEFA Cup basket, thus meaning we will have to win it to qualify for Europe next season, all fine and dandy if we do, being realistic though it looks likely that we are now going to come to the end of the line facing a side that has only lost once at home in the Bundesliga this season. of course I hope we progress and win it,I am just being realistic.

With 7 th place finish in the premiership looking beyond us, then it is highly likely we wont be watching European football next season, not an absolute disaster although our owners might beg to differ, it is hardly going to raise the clubs profile for them after such investment, maybe they would have expected a bit more who knows.

Rumours are we are going to be shifting out over 16 players.

I don’t hear who we are bringing in, or who would want to come to a club that is not even in Europe, surely no European football would impact on the calibre of player we would be hoping to attract to the club.

Never mind hypothesising with irrelevant facts and figures, if we are not in Europe next season it will be a disaster as far as recruitment goes.

It does not matter how we got there this season, fact is we did, and if we don’t get there next season we have gone backwards it is as simple as that

 

[bizzbo]

your pessimism might be short lived. I dont think that you have any more insight into the rest of this season and this summers recruitment than the rest of us. You've just outlined one of many possible scenarios. 7th was an realistic goal before the arsenal game, and is is still achievable.