Hillsborough verdicts reached

[East Level 2]

In the case of Hillsborough, the supposedly safe capacity of the terrace (c 7,500) was later found to be 2,000 too many as it hadn't been re-assessed after being split into pens. It was already apparent (or should have been) that the central pen was overcrowded well before gate C was opened. When you came through the turnstiles all you could see was the tunnel leading to that central pen and it wasn't obvious that there was a route to other ones. The other, side pens were nowhere near full and fans coming in should have been directed to these while the access to the central pen was closed off. People going onto that central terrace would have had no idea what the situation was further down. They saw an entrance to the terrace, the game was in progress so that's where they went. To suggest they share any blame for the deaths of their fellow fans is at best ignorant and at worst wicked in the extreme.

It's also worth stressing, for those that don't know the ground layout at the time, that the corner pens were ONLY accessible from behind the stand; there was no way into them from the overcrowded front pens. Fences at the front and fences on both sides meant those in the central pens had no means of escape.
But this should have been obvious to anybody doing a basic risk assessment. The mass of fans on Leppings Lane still trying to get in should have been seen by the police as a potential problem. That they then used it as an excuse for opening the gates (having first blamed the fans for forcing the gates) shows they knew the seriousness of the situation. - Police outside could see how many were still tying to get in, and police inside could see lots of empty space on the terraces so must have been able to estimate the numbers still outside. Yet nobody up the chain of command could put two and two together and have the kick-off delayed. Shambolic policing; end of story.
As for those delayed before the semi at Klanfield - don't expect anything different if there's another delay on the motorway.

 

[FanchesterCity]

It's also worth stressing, for those that don't know the ground layout at the time, that the corner pens were ONLY accessible from behind the stand; there was no way into them from the overcrowded front pens. Fences at the front and fences on both sides meant those in the central pens had no means of escape.
But this should have been obvious to anybody doing a basic risk assessment. The mass of fans on Leppings Lane still trying to get in should have been seen by the police as a potential problem. That they then used it as an excuse for opening the gates (having first blamed the fans for forcing the gates) shows they knew the seriousness of the situation. - Police outside could see how many were still tying to get in, and police inside could see lots of empty space on the terraces so must have been able to estimate the numbers still outside. Yet nobody up the chain of command could put two and two together and have the kick-off delayed. Shambolic policing; end of story.
As for those delayed before the semi at Klanfield - don't expect anything different if there's another delay on the motorway.

I'm not sure that's true but will have to double check.
From memory there were gates at the back (to the sides) of each pen allowing fans to move between between the pens, and it was this that gave rise to the theory of 'self leveling'. At Semi-Finals they were locked in the open position. However, Taylor pointed out that once the pens became full it was nigh on impossible to climb back up through the crowd to get to those gates, and furthermore, most fans didn't know they existed anyway.

 

[cibaman]

Yes I may be a cynic but stupid I'm not you muppet. I was just pointing out that although this was about closure the ink hasnt dried on the verdicts before the writs were drawn up.

The writs were drawn up some time ago (and quite rightly too). They've been on hold pending the inquest.

 

[MancunianCitizen]

To wum on such a subject is unspeakably wicked.

I think someone summed it up perfectly a couple pages back when they mentioned tribalism it will make sure some people never see the truth there hatred of Scousers just can't be put aside even with the deaths of 96 people, By the way I don't mean anyone on here just some of comments I've heard from my mates and some family members just shameful.

 

[MillionMilesAway]

The writs were drawn up some time ago (and quite rightly too). They've been on hold pending the inquest.

Did I read rightly that these are more for the families who are not of the 96, but the others whose family members were injured and sometimes now need permanent care?

 

[1961_vintage]

Can the Liverpool fans on the day as a whole be exonerated though?

They can. Now do yourself a favour - do a little more reading and better inform yourself. That way you will reduce the risk of appearing to be posting from a position of apparent ignorance.

Any match-going supporter of this era will tell you that Hillsborough was a case of "there but for the grace of God go I". For example, a derby match in the 70's at Maine Road, huge crowd surges from the back of the Kippax and people at the front being helped out to safety on to the side of the pitch. It might have been very different for those kids had they not been up against a waste-high wall. The fans at the top of the stand were of course totally oblivious to this, as were those Liverpool fans entering the Hillsborough stadium.

 

[Scaring Europe to Death]

I was listening to David Conn last night on Radio 5 live, and he was claiming that it was wrong to assume that it could have happened anywhere, because Hillsborough in particular was a death trap.

It got me thinking about two City games in particular:a 4-2 win at Sunderland, when my mate broke his ankle after a surge when City scored, and also an FA Cup tie at Blackpool in 1984, which I’d completely forgotten

Does anybody remember the half time delay, when loads of City fans had to be escorted from the packed covered enclosure to the open corner?

I’m not suggesting for one moment that it was as bad as Hillsborough, but there was definitely a crush, with fans climbing over the fence for safety.

Obviously, this was pre-Heysel etc, but I don’t even recall it being reported as anything particularly unusual.

 

[MillionMilesAway]

Conn's right on that. The pens stopped people spreading sideways, as others have said I think there was a route round the fence but it was at the top of the terrace and impossible to get to once you were past it. No way out.

From shortly afterwards, the gates at the front of stands were left open if memory serves.

 

[bluethrunthru]

Just read all this thread and would firstly echo the thought that for anybody to doubt the verdicts and consider any blame should still attach to Liverpool fans at the Leppings Lane End on the day are just stupid. I won't even consider they are on the WUM I will give them the benefit of the doubt and assume they are just stupid. Wumming on this topic deserves all the condemnation it gets.

Been out on the road for the last couple of days and heard all the coverage of the verdicts and the aftermath and then last night ceremony on 5Live and found it incredibly moving. Used to go home and away in the 80's and yep agree with so many blues on here - we all know this was bound to happen at some stage - membership cards, Ken Bates and his electric fences, negligent Policing we put up with it all for the love of the game despite the fact we were branded scum. I am so pleased that these people got their day in court and their day in the sun ( deffo NOT the paper - fucking Murdoch rag )

I have to say that when in the H.I.P. it came out that the Police were re-writing and doctoring statements you knew something had gone wrong. Its the scale of the coverup, the actions or indeed inaction of the Police, ambulance and authorities prior to the game with licensing, engineering, and planning the during the game with Police and emergency services then the actions post event with the lies and blaming that dismays me. To the present day the actions of South Yorks Police peddling lies and untruths - makes you wonder if any of us can have any trust in "the establishment" going forwards.

I hope that the families get the accountability that they want - they have my utmost respect in never, ever giving up in their quest for the truth.

 

[bluethrunthru]

Conn's right on that. The pens stopped people spreading sideways, as others have said I think there was a route round the fence but it was at the top of the terrace and impossible to get to once you were past it. No way out.

From shortly afterwards, the gates at the front of stands were left open if memory serves.

I heard somewhere over the last couple of days that "escape" gates in the ground opened INWARD into the pens.?? How the fuck was that ever going to work in a crush??