Hillsborough verdicts reached

They were a contributing factor where they not? In 96 lives lost.

They should of never been in the position they were in in the first place I agree but nevertheless I'd argue their motives where to get into the game and get a good view regardless. I doubt any of them gave any kind of thought or inclining about the poor souls at the front. I've just looked at some of the pictures online of the pen as it happend on the day. It beggars believe. There are people being crushed whilst the crowd behind continue to watch the match! Unbelievable and really sad. God bless their souls.


NO
 
Can the Liverpool fans on the day as a whole be exonerated though?

They were a contributing factor where they not? In 96 lives lost.

You can't be that fucking stupid. Before making absolutely ridiculous posts that make you look like an idiot, why not read the thread. This post pretty much nails it.

Crowd behaviour was what it was - it's was a known quantity and that is what the authorities were tasked with controlling.
If you host a Take That concert, you can expect a lot of screaming women, so you might like to consider reallocating some of the men's loos to women etc - i.e. there's a pattern of behaviour.
If you host a cup final at Wembley between two North West teams, you can predict that the M6 will be full of supporters.

In the same way, they KNEW 25K Liverpool fans would be arriving. Yes, some would have had a drink in a pub before the match (like many of our fans do today). Maybe a few would be drunk, maybe some would be aggressive - that's 'normal' for a crowd of 25K. It would almost certainly have been the same amongst the Forest fans. The whole drinking thing was a red herring used by SYP. Look at how many have a drink at City at half time - loads! - but if anything happened and the police then started to say 'they'd had a drink' - you'd be fuming at the implication that was a factor.
If City scored a goal and there was a crush, someone might say 'it's the fans fault for celebrating too enthusiastically'. That's why there are measures put in place to mitigate known behaviours in crowds.


There were traffic delays en-route the the stadium, and there also a football wide tendency for crowds to arrive later then they probably should (still happens today). The police had in the past put out cordons to stop congregation at the Leppings Lane end, but that year, they cut back on the policing, and didn't bother with the cordons. The inevitable happened, and crowds started to congest. This STILL happens today, even at City's modern day turnstiles - you will find the queue congesting at the front then people being a little more spread out towards the back of a queue.
On top of that, the turnstiles did not have the ability to process the numbers of fans in the available time - i.e. they were a bottleneck, and a dangerous one at that.
These were all PREDICTABLE and PREVENTABLE issues that were overlooked or ignored. There had been previous incidents at the Leppings Lane end, but no fatalities, so they had 'gotten away with it' before, so to speak.

When the question is asked 'did the crowd behaviour contribute to the disaster' - the word 'the' is important... i.e. did THE (that) crowd behaviour contribute in a way that another crowd wouldn't, and the answer is no.
Crowds increase danger - and that's where I think some are making the leap to 'crowds increase danger therefore the crowd contributed to the disaster'.
It's like asking 'did the racing car contribute to the death of Ayrton Senna'. It's not asking if racing cars are dangerous (they are), but asking if there was some specific flaw in that specific racing car above and beyond that normal expectation of racing car danger.

And that's what the question really is - 'Did the fans behave in a way that was outside the normal expectations of a crowd of that size' and the answer was no.

The Liverpool fans didn't do anything differently - the police did - they cut back on numbers, didn't implement cordons and didn't delay the kickoff - something they'd done previously when necessary.
On top of that, they then failed to close the tunnel (something which they had done on previous occasions). The crowd did what crowds do - and headed for the tunnel (which is precisely why it had been closed in the past). A surge of fans at the back of a queue has very little understanding of the deadly crush they are causing ahead of them, and by the time they realised it, they couldn't get out because yet more fans were coming in.
 
Carlito....a court of law has exonerated the fans against all the odds...find some other place to peddle your wumming shit!
 
Can the Liverpool fans on the day as a whole be exonerated though?

They were a contributing factor where they not? In 96 lives lost.

They should of never been in the position they were in in the first place I agree but nevertheless I'd argue their motives where to get into the game and get a good view regardless. I doubt any of them gave any kind of thought or inclining about the poor souls at the front. I've just looked at some of the pictures online of the pen as it happend on the day. It beggars believe. There are people being crushed whilst the crowd behind continue to watch the match! Unbelievable and really sad. God bless their souls.

You are either incredibly stupid, sorry if you are btw or just wumming.

Maybe both?
 
It's never been about the money, it's always been about the truth and getting justice for the 96. If you somehow where in a position to give them their families back and erase the last 27 years, do you think they would want the compo instead?
They have been through hell and despite all the evidence to the contrary there are still people who believe the Police version of events. Now we have accusations that it's all about the compo. I fucking despair at the levels of cynicism and downright stupidity that some people show over Hillsborough.
Good luck to the families of the 96, they deserve every fucking penny they can get.
It's never been about the money, it's always been about the truth and getting justice for the 96. If you somehow where in a position to give them their families back and erase the last 27 years, do you think they would want the compo instead?
They have been through hell and despite all the evidence to the contrary there are still people who believe the Police version of events. Now we have accusations that it's all about the compo. I fucking despair at the levels of cynicism and downright stupidity that some people show over Hillsborough.
Good luck to the families of the 96, they deserve every fucking penny they can get.
Yes I may be a cynic but stupid I'm not you muppet. I was just pointing out that although this was about closure the ink hasnt dried on the verdicts before the writs were drawn up.
 
Yes I may be a cynic but stupid I'm not you muppet. I was just pointing out that although this was about closure the ink hasnt dried on the verdicts before the writs were drawn up.

So what? The police lied over and over and over again, right up till the very last minute, 27 years down the line and if writs and more court action is needed to cost those responsible careers, pensions and their reputations then so be it.

I'd do the same in fact I think the majority would, yourself included.
 
Yes I may be a cynic but stupid I'm not you muppet. I was just pointing out that although this was about closure the ink hasnt dried on the verdicts before the writs were drawn up.

Anyone who thinks the fans had something to do with it is a certifiable fucking idiot.
 
Can the Liverpool fans on the day as a whole be exonerated though?

They were a contributing factor where they not? In 96 lives lost.

They should of never been in the position they were in in the first place I agree but nevertheless I'd argue their motives where to get into the game and get a good view regardless. I doubt any of them gave any kind of thought or inclining about the poor souls at the front. I've just looked at some of the pictures online of the pen as it happend on the day. It beggars believe. There are people being crushed whilst the crowd behind continue to watch the match! Unbelievable and really sad. God bless their souls.
You are irredeemably thick.
 

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