Hitler

[tueartsboots]

Condone, condemn, similar words, almost opposite meaning, so be careful.

-- Wed Aug 25, 2010 9:04 am --


Can you expand on this? I think it's very short-sighted and pretty bloody childish in thinking flawless wars can be waged. That Hitler got rolling at all is down to Britain and France's long-term strategic 'mistakes' in the 1930s in opting for the Maginot line and placing too much emphasis on bombers rather than fighters, and not only that but tactical errors in 1940. British and French tanks were both superior and more numerous in 1940 but yet Blitzkrieg exploited the outdated infantry support tactics of the allies to gain an overwhelming victory that on paper was unlikely.

Failing to invade the UK in 1940 and invading Russia at all are two particularly glaring mistakes.

There are a lot more areas I could expand on, but as I'm childish I'm not going to. So there!

Yeah, you tell him and then take your ball home to prove your point
(Hope you waved 2 fingers at your screen before hiting submit)

 

[mammutly]

Failing to invade the UK in 1940 and invading Russia at all are two particularly glaring mistakes.

There are a lot more areas I could expand on, but as I'm childish I'm not going to. So there!

Yeah, you tell him and then take your ball home to prove your point
(Hope you waved 2 fingers at your screen before hiting submit)

No!

But I did stick my tongue out after typing 'So there!'

I'm not proud of it, but I also said 'you meany!'

Thankfully I edited that bit out before posting.

 

[Fame Monster]

Condone, condemn, similar words, almost opposite meaning, so be careful.

-- Wed Aug 25, 2010 9:04 am --


Can you expand on this? I think it's very short-sighted and pretty bloody childish in thinking flawless wars can be waged. That Hitler got rolling at all is down to Britain and France's long-term strategic 'mistakes' in the 1930s in opting for the Maginot line and placing too much emphasis on bombers rather than fighters, and not only that but tactical errors in 1940. British and French tanks were both superior and more numerous in 1940 but yet Blitzkrieg exploited the outdated infantry support tactics of the allies to gain an overwhelming victory that on paper was unlikely.

Failing to invade the UK in 1940 and invading Russia at all are two particularly glaring mistakes.

There are a lot more areas I could expand on, but as I'm childish I'm not going to. So there!

I strongly disagree with those points.

 

[tueartsboots]

Failing to invade the UK in 1940 and invading Russia at all are two particularly glaring mistakes.

There are a lot more areas I could expand on, but as I'm childish I'm not going to. So there!

I strongly disagree with those points.

The attacks were Britain's first taste of strategic bombing, when air forces aimed at civilian morale and industrial production rather than purely military targets.
The start of what came to be called the London Blitz - from Blitzkrieg, or "lightning war" - marked a change of strategy by the German leader, Adolf Hitler.

His attempt to invade Britain had already been frustrated by the Luftwaffe's failure to gain air superiority despite a month of trying.

Now, Hitler was going to try to crush the British people instead.

The RAF had in fact been brought almost to its knees by the relentless attacks of the Luftwaffe, but the change of plan gave it a desperately-needed breathing space.
By contrast, the Blitz raids were disastrous for the Luftwaffe, which lost almost all its experienced aircrew and hundreds of aircraft.

About 43,000 civilians died during the Blitz. Almost 140,000 more were injured, and more than a million homes damaged or destroyed.

 

[mammutly]

I strongly disagree with those points.

The attacks were Britain's first taste of strategic bombing, when air forces aimed at civilian morale and industrial production rather than purely military targets.
The start of what came to be called the London Blitz - from Blitzkrieg, or "lightning war" - marked a change of strategy by the German leader, Adolf Hitler.

His attempt to invade Britain had already been frustrated by the Luftwaffe's failure to gain air superiority despite a month of trying.

Now, Hitler was going to try to crush the British people instead.

The RAF had in fact been brought almost to its knees by the relentless attacks of the Luftwaffe, but the change of plan gave it a desperately-needed breathing space.
By contrast, the Blitz raids were disastrous for the Luftwaffe, which lost almost all its experienced aircrew and hundreds of aircraft.

About 43,000 civilians died during the Blitz. Almost 140,000 more were injured, and more than a million homes damaged or destroyed.

Accounts vary, but one more day, or 3 at the most ,and the Battle of Britain would have been lost. There is no doubt that the Luftwaffe had the resources to continue ,whereas the RAF were right at the point of being unable to get planes in the air.

 

[tueartsboots]

The attacks were Britain's first taste of strategic bombing, when air forces aimed at civilian morale and industrial production rather than purely military targets.
The start of what came to be called the London Blitz - from Blitzkrieg, or "lightning war" - marked a change of strategy by the German leader, Adolf Hitler.

His attempt to invade Britain had already been frustrated by the Luftwaffe's failure to gain air superiority despite a month of trying.

Now, Hitler was going to try to crush the British people instead.

The RAF had in fact been brought almost to its knees by the relentless attacks of the Luftwaffe, but the change of plan gave it a desperately-needed breathing space.
By contrast, the Blitz raids were disastrous for the Luftwaffe, which lost almost all its experienced aircrew and hundreds of aircraft.

About 43,000 civilians died during the Blitz. Almost 140,000 more were injured, and more than a million homes damaged or destroyed.

Accounts vary, but one more day, or 3 at the most ,and the Battle of Britain would have been lost. There is no doubt that the Luftwaffe had the resources to continue ,whereas the RAF were right at the point of being unable to get planes in the air.

Indeed. My source is from BBC on this day
<a class="postlink" href="http://news.bbc.co.uk/onthisday/hi/dates/stories/september/7/newsid_3515000/3515708.stm" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;">http://news.bbc.co.uk/onthisday/hi/date ... 515708.stm</a>

 

[Skashion]

Hitler didn't decide to switch strategy. German bombers hit civilian targets by accident. Churchill retaliated by ordering a raid over Berlin. Hitler, who had promised a raid on Berlin would never happen, switched to area bombing. It wasn't a strategic switch. Typical Hitler rage solution which certainly did give Fighter Command valuable respite. However, the claim that Britain would have been a sitting duck had Fighter Command not survived is completely erroneous. The 'few' is a nice story and they certainly made the defence of Britain much surer, less costly and made a contribution way beyond their numbers but that is it.

 

[mammutly]

Hitler didn't decide to switch strategy. German bombers hit civilian targets by accident. Churchill retaliated by ordering a raid over Berlin. Hitler, who had promised a raid on Berlin would never happen, switched to area bombing. It wasn't a strategic switch. Typical Hitler rage solution which certainly did give Fighter Command valuable respite. However, the claim that Britain would have been a sitting duck had Fighter Command not survived is completely erroneous. The 'few' is a nice story and they certainly made the defence of Britain much surer, less costly and made a contribution way beyond their numbers but that is it.

So what about Hitler's plans to invade once the RAF were defeated?

It was the failure to establish air superiority which fatally stalled the planned assualt.

Hitler made military decisions for political reasons. Hence the view that Germany esssentially lost a winnable war more than the allies having won it.

That's not to in anyway belittle the enormous effort and sacrifice of the allied forces. But the fact is that Germany was the superior force in 1939 -40 and they made vast and ultimately critical mistakes.

 

[tueartsboots]

Hitler didn't decide to switch strategy. German bombers hit civilian targets by accident. Churchill retaliated by ordering a raid over Berlin. Hitler, who had promised a raid on Berlin would never happen, switched to area bombing. It wasn't a strategic switch. Typical Hitler rage solution which certainly did give Fighter Command valuable respite. However, the claim that Britain would have been a sitting duck had Fighter Command not survived is completely erroneous. The 'few' is a nice story and they certainly made the defence of Britain much surer, less costly and made a contribution way beyond their numbers but that is it.

So what about Hitler's plans to invade once the RAF were defeated?

It was the failure to establish air superiority which fatally stalled the planned assualt.

Hitler made military decisions for political reasons. Hence the view that Germany esssentially lost a winnable war more than the allies having won it.

That's not to in anyway belittle the enormous effort and sacrifice of the allied forces. But the fact is that Germany was the superior force in 1939 -40 and they made vast and ultimately critical mistakes.

Skashion, you are quite right it was an error by the Luftwaffe but Hitler, rather than scream nein nein nein, stay with primary objective said ok, scare the shit out of Londoners and they will capitulate. instead it gave RAF time to regroup

 

[Skashion]

Hitler didn't decide to switch strategy. German bombers hit civilian targets by accident. Churchill retaliated by ordering a raid over Berlin. Hitler, who had promised a raid on Berlin would never happen, switched to area bombing. It wasn't a strategic switch. Typical Hitler rage solution which certainly did give Fighter Command valuable respite. However, the claim that Britain would have been a sitting duck had Fighter Command not survived is completely erroneous. The 'few' is a nice story and they certainly made the defence of Britain much surer, less costly and made a contribution way beyond their numbers but that is it.

So what about Hitler's plans to invade once the RAF were defeated?

It was the failure to establish air superiority which fatally stalled the planned assualt.

Hitler made military decisions for political reasons. Hence the view that Germany esssentially lost a winnable war more than the allies having won it.

But the fact is that Germany was the superior force in 1939 -40 and they made vast and ultimately critical mistakes.

I'm saying Hitler's plans to invade could not have succeeded had Fighter Command been destroyed. There is something called the Royal Navy and in 1940 it was the biggest naval force on the planet.

Air superiority was essential for an attempt. The success of the attempt was far from certain even with air superiority.

Noticed you have skirted around the issue of Germany even getting to the Channel due to English and French strategic and tactical errors. Only Germany are allowed to make mistakes then.

That is simply untrue. Britain and France combined were stronger both on land and at sea, quantitatively and qualitatively.