Homophobia in football

roy.or.r said:
Well that’s the point. If homophobia is not a big deal, then there would have been a lot of pl footballers coming out. The fact they haven’t is precisely why the support for LGBT community is so crucial.
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You’ve made a wild assumption that there’s lots of gay footballers plying their trade in the premier league. There is simply no evidence of that.

I was more convinced by an earlier poster who said it’s possible that gay footballers are dropping out of football at a younger age.
 
cheekybids said:
You’ve made a wild assumption that there’s lots of gay footballers plying their trade in the premier league. There is simply no evidence of that.

I was more convinced by an earlier poster who said it’s possible that gay footballers are dropping out of football at a younger age.
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Either way, it shouldn’t make any difference. If an openly gay player appeared for City, there would be a small bunch of arseoles booing or whatever but the vast majority couldn’t care less. They’d be asking, does he track back?
 
cheekybids said:
You’ve made a wild assumption that there’s lots of gay footballers plying their trade in the premier league. There is simply no evidence of that.

I was more convinced by an earlier poster who said it’s possible that gay footballers are dropping out of football at a younger age.
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Just under 4% of the UK male population identify as gay, of course there are men who are gay who do not identify as such, so the figure is likely to be larger, but if you run with 4%, the Premier League has 533 players, so if the PL is a reflection of the male UK population just over 21 players are gay.

You make reference to someone posting earlier that all sorts of societal pressures kick in that prevent gay players from pursuing a career as professional footballers, but even if that wipes out 50% of that number and given that this is back of a fag packet maths, there should be at least a handful of players who are gay, yet the Premier League have zero who are openly gay.

That's so bloody depressing.
 
The perfect fumble said:
Just under 4% of the UK male population identify as gay, of course there are men who are gay who do not identify as such, so the figure is likely to be larger, but if you run with 4%, the Premier League has 533 players, so if the PL is a reflection of the male UK population just over 21 players are gay.

You make reference to someone posting earlier that all sorts of societal pressures kick in that prevent gay players from pursuing a career as professional footballers, but even if that wipes out 50% of that number and given that this is back of a fag packet maths, there should be at least a handful of players who are gay, yet the Premier League have zero who are openly gay.

That's so bloody depressing.
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I would imagine some industries have a higher representation so I don’t believe there are 500+ hiding in the premier league. I support the rainbow laces as a campaign but there is no evidence that there will be a huge amount of gay premier league players but hopefully the campaign helps fight homophobia.
 
BigJoe#1 said:
The religion or sex preferences of individuals is nothing to do with anyone, only those involved in any relationships and then it's purely a private matter.
I don't wish to know or get involved to the point that it causes more bother than it's worth and I really am not interested.... Nor should anyone else be.
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We should bring in laws like Singapore for religion.

In your place of worship do what you want, when you want but outside of that place no canvassing of your religion.

What anyone sexual preference, religion or beliefs is is utterly irrelevant in sport or for that matter life.
 
There could be a wide ranging list of reasons why someone might choose not to, within their perfectly normal right not to.

Some might have religious reasons. Some might be not wanting to have gimmicks forced into football and don’t want this or the poppy or the pointless kneeling down against racism in football at all. Some might have full support for gay, lesbian and bisexual people but may disagree with the morals around certain trans issues and how they’re dealt with medically, so don’t want to support the cause since it became more than just LGB. Some might have full support for gay, lesbian and bisexual people but disagree with trans people playing women’s football, so don’t want to support the cause since it became more than just LGB. Some might be superstitious and want to wear their lucky captain’s armband at all times, bar none. And there could be as many legitimate reasons again on top of those.
 
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cheekybids said:
I would imagine some industries have a higher representation so I don’t believe there are 500+ hiding in the premier league. I support the rainbow laces as a campaign but there is no evidence that there will be a huge amount of gay premier league players but hopefully the campaign helps fight homophobia.
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How many ex-players have declared themselves after they have retired when the "pressure" is off? That may give an indication of the number. Although why it fucking matters I have no idea.
 
cheekybids said:
I would imagine some industries have a higher representation so I don’t believe there are 500+ hiding in the premier league. I support the rainbow laces as a campaign but there is no evidence that there will be a huge amount of gay premier league players but hopefully the campaign helps fight homophobia.
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That's an interesting point you make, it's taken as read that gay folk gravitate to certain professions, the arts and so on, but I don't think that's the case.

I believe that in the arts it's easier to be expressive and that extends to ones sexuality, but the gay folk I know come from all walks of life and various professions, the one thing I've noticed is it's easier for the well heeled, the middle classes and the well educated to either come out openly, come out partially to a select circle of friends and confidantes, or to carve a hidden life that runs surreptitiously along side their straight public persona.

As in everything, for younger gays the family is key, and while my knowledge is dated on this aspect, I think it's fair to say it's tougher for working class kids.

But there's a misconception about all this, ones sexuality is an important part of ones life, but in very rare cases is it the defining characteristic of who one is, think about whether your sexuality is your defining characteristic. Nor does it bring a unanimity of thought and purpose.

Just because Lesbians, gays and bisexuals worldwide can suffer persecution, that runs the gamut from mild reproach right through to the death penalty, does not mean gay folk have one unified voice, they don't. The gays I know have given up on Manchester Pride, hate the laces with a passion and despise Stonewall, but they tend to be older gay guys and Lesbians, I don't know so much what younger gay folk think coz I don't know any.

All I'm saying is there's no more one size fits all for gay folk than for any other group, and any organisation or spokesperson who pretends to speak for the whole gay community is doing just that, pretending.
 
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JASR said:
You should have the right to not partake in an overt (ie visual) display of something you may not agree with, or are uncomfortable with the nature of being forced to do something outside your expected remit of being a footballer playing for a club.
People should be free to draw their own conclusions on the application by an individual of those rights.

However…

Scrawling ‘Jesus loves you’ on the symbol, is an admission that you are a hypocrite, perfectly willing to do your own overt display in reaction to another overt display.

The United chap had admitted it would go against his religion, so wouldn’t wear it, which is the only reaction he could do…but again he’s a hypocrite because he didn’t want to partake in an overt display of something he is against, but is perfectly happy making religious gestures on entering the pitch (and presumably if he scores a goal) in full view of millions of people who don’t share that view.

Both of the individuals were influenced in their decisions by their adherence to mythologies and arcane texts.

As with racism - the same applies for homophobia, there is no justifiable place for it in the world.

And the same goes for any promoting of any religion. The uncaring combination of religious righteousness and homophobia was shown by both of them.
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Can they wear ‘straight’ armbands?
 
The perfect fumble said:
That's an interesting point you make, it's taken as read that gay folk gravitate to certain professions, the arts and so on, but I don't think that's the case.

I believe that in the arts it's easier to be expressive and that extends to ones sexuality, but the gay folk I know come from all walks of life and various professions, the one thing I've noticed is it's easier for the well heeled, the middle classes and the well educated to either come out openly, come out partially to a select circle of friends and confidantes, or to carve a hidden life that runs surreptitiously along side their straight public persona.

As in everything, for younger gays the family is key, and while my knowledge is dated on this aspect, I think it's fair to say it's tougher for working class kids.

But there's a misconception about all this, ones sexuality is an important part of ones life, but in very rare cases is it the defining characteristic of who one is, think about whether your sexuality is your defining characteristic. Nor does it bring a unanimity of thought and purpose.

Just because Lesbians, gays and bisexuals worldwide can suffer persecution, that runs the gamut from mild reproach right through to the death penalty, does not mean gay folk have one unified voice, they don't. The gays I know have given up on Manchester Pride, hate the laces with a passion and despise Stonewall, but they tend to be older gay guys and Lesbians, I don't know so much what younger gay folk think coz I don't know any.

All I'm saying is there's no more one size fits all for gay folk than for any other group, and any organisation or spokes person who pretends to speak for the whole gay community is doing just that, pretending.
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No that’s not the point I’m making I just don’t believe 4% means x should equate to y & if there was there would be loads of ex players coining it in by selling the story.
 
cheekybids said:
No that’s not the point I’m making I just don’t believe 4% means x should equate to y & if there was there would be loads of ex players coining it in by selling the story.
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You may be right, but I suspect that older ex players may have much more to lose by coming out in later life, than losing the chance of a lucrative book deal, they may well be married, have kids and so on. It is a sad fact that there are so many older folk who for one reason or another didn't feel able to come out in their youth, who in later life settle for what they have. Old age can be filled with regrets and that's as true for older closet gays as anyone else.

Notwithstanding, I get your point.
 
The perfect fumble said:
You may be right, but I suspect that older ex players may have much more to lose by coming out in later life, than losing the chance of a lucrative book deal, they may well be married, have kids and so on. It is a sad fact that there are so many older folk who for one reason or another didn't feel able to come out in their youth, who in later life settle for what they have. Old age can be filled with regrets and that's as true for older closet gays as anyone else.

Notwithstanding, I get your point.
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I think the filthy media would find a way of persuading them if you get my drift.
 
Blue Til Death said:
Are you seriously saying that if a person decides not to wear that armband they are homophobic…
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The armband is to support a campaign which has had a really clear agenda that’s been signposted all over their media and campaigning from day one 12 years ago: Support the inclusion and equality of LGBT people in sport.

So if you decide you don’t want to wear that armband, it’s pretty hard to not infer that you don’t support the inclusion and equality of LGBT people which is pretty much the definition of homophobia.

Im not saying it’s impossible for someone to have a good reason to not wear it, but so far we’ve never had anyone come out and give a reason for not wearing the armband which isn’t homophobic, in fact every time it’s been “my religion is homophobic so I can’t wear it” which is homophobia.
 
cheekybids said:
No that’s not the point I’m making I just don’t believe 4% means x should equate to y & if there was there would be loads of ex players coining it in by selling the story.
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FWIW we know from the few players that have come out, and the PFA, that there are quite a few gay footballers in the league right now who choose to keep it private.

I think any player who decided to out a fellow professional would be met with so much disdain and animosity that even the tabloids would be weary of touching it. A active player would get blacklisted, no club would want to deal with the fan backlash from signing such a piece of shit (and there really is no other description for someone who sells that story).

The Sun or whatever rag ran the story would find their entire sports desk completely ostracised, I think if it happened today in 2024 they’d be banned from every PL ground and press conferences by the next match day. It’d definitely land them in front of a parliamentary select committee and there’d be a big debate about criminalising such stories which is already the case in other countries.
 
roy.or.r said:
Well that’s the point. If homophobia is not a big deal, then there would have been a lot of pl footballers coming out. The fact they haven’t is precisely why the support for LGBT community is so crucial.
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Why should they or anyone have to 'come out'? Seriously, why can't everyone just live their lives without having to tell the world and it's dog where they like to stick their dicks (or the female equivalent of) to get off?

As long as its legal who cares??
 
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