Homophobia in football

[stonerblue]

Refusing to wear an armband calling for the basic dignity and human rights of LGBTQ people does make you homophobic, actually. Especially when your reason is "it's against my religion".

If your religion tells you that gay people don't deserve the same human rights as straight people, it's a homophobic religion. Sadly, the vast majority of religions are.

These guys should own it. It's been said already, but it's funny how these players follow the Bible or the Quran to the letter when it comes to gay people, but when it comes to sex, drinking and gambling, it's all open to interpretation.

On reflection, and after two coffees and a fag, you're probably right.
On a personal level and if i was a footballer i'd be pissed off with all the outside influences that force them to 'display' their thoughts and feelings on a myriad of 'hot potato' subjects. Minutes silences, kneeling, poppies, sexuality, national anthems etc etc. The list is growing season after season.
Keep politics out of football.

 

[mexico1970]

But this is where you're making a big mistake and not really understanding the situation. Homosexuality and Islam aren't both ideologies. One is a sexuality, something a person is born with, and the other is an organised faith someone might choose to follow. They're not two equal things clashing - one is a matter of someone's biological make-up, the other is a set of beliefs they've adopted. One's nature, one's nurture. Surely you can see the difference?

I'm not saying Homosexuality is an ideology, I haven't got anything wrong. I am saying the need to have rainbows plastered over everything is an ideology.

And it very much is.

Just as an aside if the rainbow badge promoters go head to head with Islam they will lose, because Islam is as entrenched in their views as they are and there are a lot more of them than gay people.

 

[KS55]

Let’s not deflect and denigrate my professionalism at work now…

I’ve been in far more dressing rooms where individuality was both understood and appreciated than those where someone’s personal beliefs had to be put to one side “for the good of the team.” And, let’s not forget, THIS EDICT IS NOT COMING FROM THE TEAM!!!

I’m all for the LGBTQ+ community having equal human rights. No issue whatsoever. What I’m not in favor of is their individuality trumping the individuality of those who don’t share their sentiments or approve of what they do in their personal lives. That doesn’t sound like the equality they even want, nor does displaying “the rainbow” (a made up symbol for their agenda) do a damned thing for expanding what it is I think they are actually seeking to achieve, which is REAL equality.

Being forced to wear a gay (or any other) symbol strikes me as ANTI, not PRO, freedom. Just as I dislike, but respect, James MacClean’s stance on the poppy on shirts, I respect an individuals right to SELF determination.

If Crystal Palace were smart…or had an ounce of nous…they would simply nominate someone else to be “Captain” of the side for the rainbow armband games. Currently, the only special thing is they do is go to the toss up and talk to the refs. I have a feeling Guehi would be absolutely fine with that.

And, for what it’s worth, I think his writing about Jesus on his armband should get him a ban. He knows why he’s doing it and, while he should have been banned already but was only given a warning, his insistence on flouting the rule is a PERSONAL statement that has no place on his uniform.

Instead, were he a REAL CAPTAIN, he should have simply said “In good faith and with a clear conscience, I cannot wear this armband without writing a banned religious statement on it. Knowing this might elicit a negative response from the PL authorities, and not wanting to HARM MY TEAM, I wish to relinquish the armband while it is this rainbow symbol.”

Sorted. And, I would have had more respect for him…as a TEAMMATE! Palace can hardly afford their best defender getting a ban, can they, but he’s pushing his luck by trying to goad the PL into giving him one. WHO does that help? NOT HIS TEAMMATES!

Instead, we have everyone getting in a tizzy about individual freedoms, gay or religious, being juxtaposed against what is a forced societal acceptance of an edict handed down from the political virtue signalers.

Freedom isn’t free, especially if you feel society is impinging on yours.


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I agree with the general tenor of your remarks. The issue is one of competing rights.
There was a case in N.I. of a baker who refused, on religious grounds, to supply a cake with a pro gay message. He was found to have infringed the customers rights.
Scotland passed an act which basically said that trans people could self declare and must be treated as a full member of their new gender. On day 1 it was in force, the Scottish gov refused to send a convicted rapist to a woman’s prison when he self declared as a woman. The Harry Potter author was shunned by the actors for pointing out that rights of trans people should not be used to cancel the tradition right of women to a safe space. I posted about competing rights on here saying traditional rights cannot be cancelled by new ones, giving examples. Two idiots attacked me for being anti trans which I am not at all.
Competing rights is a very difficult area which governments tend to duck.

 

[youngbob]

I'm not saying Homosexuality is an ideology, I haven't got anything wrong. I am saying the need to have rainbows plastered over everything is an ideology.

And it very much is.

Just as an aside if the rainbow badge promoters go head to head with Islam they will lose, because Islam is as entrenched in their views as they are and there are a lot more of them than gay people.

If you'd rather homosexuality won over Islam rather than the other way around, is it not better to show your support, then?

 

[KS55]

But this is where you're making a big mistake and not really understanding the situation. Homosexuality and Islam aren't both ideologies. One is a sexuality, something a person is born with, and the other is an organised faith someone might choose to follow. They're not two equal things clashing - one is a matter of someone's biological make-up, the other is a set of beliefs they've adopted. One's nature, one's nurture. Surely you can see the difference?

You are right about nature vs nurture but you have not said why one should take precedence over the other. That is the issue.

 

[mexico1970]

If you'd rather homosexuality won over Islam rather than the other way around, is it not better to show your support, then?

I genuinely couldn't care less, I am just stating the facts. I neither support gays or Muslims I support people if they are wronged.

What I wont do is just support people who believe what I believe, that's where society is now and it stinks.

 

[Nellies left peg]

I'm not saying Homosexuality is an ideology, I haven't got anything wrong. I am saying the need to have rainbows plastered over everything is an ideology.

And it very much is.

Just as an aside if the rainbow badge promoters go head to head with Islam they will lose, because Islam is as entrenched in their views as they are and there are a lot more of them than gay people.

I cannot see why I go into M and S to pick up a sandwich and have rainbows all over it.. People are what they are and rainbow laces and arm bands aren’t going to make a difference in the slightest. For all the homophobes in the world gay pride marches and adverts on tv only serve to entrench their views even more

 

[KS55]

If you'd rather homosexuality won over Islam rather than the other way around, is it not better to show your support, then?

Not the issue, again. The issue is being ordered to do something against your will or conscience or even being ordered to do something for reasons nothing to do with football. I would quite happily display the rainbow symbol, but I would baulk at being ordered to do so. Surely that’s a decision for me, not for some guys in a smoke filled back room.

 

[KS55]

On reflection, and after two coffees and a fag, you're probably right.
On a personal level and if i was a footballer i'd be pissed off with all the outside influences that force them to 'display' their thoughts and feelings on a myriad of 'hot potato' subjects. Minutes silences, kneeling, poppies, sexuality, national anthems etc etc. The list is growing season after season.
Keep politics out of football.

bbp is not saying that. It sounds like you actually disagree with him.

 

[youngbob]

Not the issue, again. The issue is being ordered to do something against your will or conscience or even being ordered to do something for reasons nothing to do with football. I would quite happily display the rainbow symbol, but I would baulk at being ordered to do so. Surely that’s a decision for me, not for some guys in a smoke filled back room.

But again, like I keep saying, over and over, Morsy choosing not to wear the rainbow armband isn't the issue, it's the fact that he's openly admitted his prejudice that's the issue.