House Buying / Selling Thread

[DenisLawBackHeel74]

In what way has my (and every other property) growing more than 3x in value proved to be an ''excellent investment'' for me or any other owner occupier of a single property?

I now couldn't afford to move up the ''property ladder'' (not that I want to) as house price inflation has massively outstripped wage inflation.

Unless I intend to sell up and go live in a tent then the increase in value has been of no benefit what so ever to me or any other owner occupier.

But still you'll get the brain dead morons who only ever think that rampant house price inflation is a great thing for owner occupiers.

It's proved to be an excellent investment for you because as you stated, you managed to put up 25k for a 60k home, borrowed 35k, which you subsequently paid back over 8 years and then ended up with an asset worth 180k which you had the choice to sell and do something with the cash, or trade up to a bigger property, secure another mortgage and rinse/repeat etc.

You yourself are fueling the market by your actions so I'm not sure you have much to complain about... You could have always continued to rent and been in a worse position and you could still 'cash out' take the money and run and rent a property...I still don't think you'd be happy tho would you.

Your comments are contradictory, but you appear to be lamenting the fact you can't afford to trade up? But without inflation wouldn't you be in the same predicament, You'd have a 60k asset trying to trade up rather than a 180k asset trying to trade up?

Bottom line tho is that you own your own home outright which is more than many people have.

 

[jacko74]

It's proved to be an excellent investment for you because as you stated, you managed to put up 25k for a 60k home, borrowed 35k, which you subsequently paid back over 8 years and then ended up with an asset worth 180k which you had the choice to sell and do something with the cash, or trade up to a bigger property, secure another mortgage and rinse/repeat etc.

You yourself are fueling the market by your actions so I'm not sure you have much to complain about... You could have always continued to rent and been in a worse position and you could still 'cash out' take the money and run and rent a property...I still don't think you'd be happy tho would you.

Your comments are contradictory, but you appear to be lamenting the fact you can't afford to trade up? But without inflation wouldn't you be in the same predicament, You'd have a 60k asset trying to trade up rather than a 180k asset trying to trade up?

Bottom line tho is that you own your own home outright which is more than many people have.

You're completely missing every point I'm attempting to make, not sure if that's my fault or yours...

How on earth do I ''have the choice to sell off my £180k asset and do something with the cash'' other than selling my house and buying a tent to live in????

I bought a property in 2001, nice 2 bed in a nice area, on a single, part time, unskilled wage with a 25% deposit (that was £15k NOT the £25k you've quoted) and I paid the mortgage off in 8 years... All of that would be completely impossible for any FTBer to do now thanks to the rampant HPI we've witnessed in the last 20 years

I don't want to trade up, but, if I did it would be impossible as HPI has massively outstripped wage inflation in that time.... Without HPI I'd now have a £60k asset and be looking to trade up to a £90k asset, requiring a £30k mortgage which would be doable on my wages... with HPI I've got a £180k asset but would need to trade up to a £270k asset, requiring a £90k mortgage completely impossible on my wages.

It's not even as though the crazy levels of HPI we've seen since around the year 2000 have been as a result of a free market economy or natural supply and demand etc... there have been 2 distinct periods of HPI in that time, both with very specific causes -

2001-2008 Was a result of reckless, irresponsible and often fraudulent lending by the banks.
Post 2008 to present day has been as a result of deliberate govt and BoE policy to initially prop up and then further inflate the property market with QE, ZIRP, FLS, HTB etc etc


As hard as you seem to find it to grasp I'm not complaining about my personal situation, anybody buying now is getting an abysmal deal compared to just about any other generation before them, paying huge proportions of their wages for just about the whole of their working lives and yet they still act like they've won the lottery, I'm guessing they're either too ill informed to realise just how much they're being shafted or just too proud to admit it.

 

[Uncle Wally One Ball]

You're completely missing every point I'm attempting to make, not sure if that's my fault or yours...

How on earth do I ''have the choice to sell off my £180k asset and do something with the cash'' other than selling my house and buying a tent to live in????

I bought a property in 2001, nice 2 bed in a nice area, on a single, part time, unskilled wage with a 25% deposit (that was £15k NOT the £25k you've quoted) and I paid the mortgage off in 8 years... All of that would be completely impossible for any FTBer to do now thanks to the rampant HPI we've witnessed in the last 20 years

I don't want to trade up, but, if I did it would be impossible as HPI has massively outstripped wage inflation in that time.... Without HPI I'd now have a £60k asset and be looking to trade up to a £90k asset, requiring a £30k mortgage which would be doable on my wages... with HPI I've got a £180k asset but would need to trade up to a £270k asset, requiring a £90k mortgage completely impossible on my wages.

It's not even as though the crazy levels of HPI we've seen since around the year 2000 have been as a result of a free market economy or natural supply and demand etc... there have been 2 distinct periods of HPI in that time, both with very specific causes -

2001-2008 Was a result of reckless, irresponsible and often fraudulent lending by the banks.
Post 2008 to present day has been as a result of deliberate govt and BoE policy to initially prop up and then further inflate the property market with QE, ZIRP, FLS, HTB etc etc


As hard as you seem to find it to grasp I'm not complaining about my personal situation, anybody buying now is getting an abysmal deal compared to just about any other generation before them, paying huge proportions of their wages for just about the whole of their working lives and yet they still act like they've won the lottery, I'm guessing they're either too ill informed to realise just how much they're being shafted or just too proud to admit it.

Excellent post that echoes how I view it too. This countries obsession with house prices is totally counter productive and very unhealthy. It is all built on sand, falsely inflated and propped up to remain so because if it goes tits up the ramifications are unthinkable.

 

[CityStu]

You're completely missing every point I'm attempting to make, not sure if that's my fault or yours...

How on earth do I ''have the choice to sell off my £180k asset and do something with the cash'' other than selling my house and buying a tent to live in????

I bought a property in 2001, nice 2 bed in a nice area, on a single, part time, unskilled wage with a 25% deposit (that was £15k NOT the £25k you've quoted) and I paid the mortgage off in 8 years... All of that would be completely impossible for any FTBer to do now thanks to the rampant HPI we've witnessed in the last 20 years

I don't want to trade up, but, if I did it would be impossible as HPI has massively outstripped wage inflation in that time.... Without HPI I'd now have a £60k asset and be looking to trade up to a £90k asset, requiring a £30k mortgage which would be doable on my wages... with HPI I've got a £180k asset but would need to trade up to a £270k asset, requiring a £90k mortgage completely impossible on my wages.

It's not even as though the crazy levels of HPI we've seen since around the year 2000 have been as a result of a free market economy or natural supply and demand etc... there have been 2 distinct periods of HPI in that time, both with very specific causes -

2001-2008 Was a result of reckless, irresponsible and often fraudulent lending by the banks.
Post 2008 to present day has been as a result of deliberate govt and BoE policy to initially prop up and then further inflate the property market with QE, ZIRP, FLS, HTB etc etc


As hard as you seem to find it to grasp I'm not complaining about my personal situation, anybody buying now is getting an abysmal deal compared to just about any other generation before them, paying huge proportions of their wages for just about the whole of their working lives and yet they still act like they've won the lottery, I'm guessing they're either too ill informed to realise just how much they're being shafted or just too proud to admit it.

The difficulty is the alternative.

I bought my first house last summer with my girlfriend, in Bicester, with a £60k, 20% deposit thanks to my parents (no way we'd have been able to save anything close to that ourselves). Our mortgage outgoings are about £950 a month.

Before that we rented in Oxford for £1,350 a month (and due to go up by £50 when we moved out), which was the going rate for what we needed.

Obviously owning has additional liabilities, but I'm loving it compared to renting.

 

[True_Blue69]

You're completely missing every point I'm attempting to make, not sure if that's my fault or yours...

How on earth do I ''have the choice to sell off my £180k asset and do something with the cash'' other than selling my house and buying a tent to live in????

I bought a property in 2001, nice 2 bed in a nice area, on a single, part time, unskilled wage with a 25% deposit (that was £15k NOT the £25k you've quoted) and I paid the mortgage off in 8 years... All of that would be completely impossible for any FTBer to do now thanks to the rampant HPI we've witnessed in the last 20 years

I don't want to trade up, but, if I did it would be impossible as HPI has massively outstripped wage inflation in that time.... Without HPI I'd now have a £60k asset and be looking to trade up to a £90k asset, requiring a £30k mortgage which would be doable on my wages... with HPI I've got a £180k asset but would need to trade up to a £270k asset, requiring a £90k mortgage completely impossible on my wages.

It's not even as though the crazy levels of HPI we've seen since around the year 2000 have been as a result of a free market economy or natural supply and demand etc... there have been 2 distinct periods of HPI in that time, both with very specific causes -

2001-2008 Was a result of reckless, irresponsible and often fraudulent lending by the banks.
Post 2008 to present day has been as a result of deliberate govt and BoE policy to initially prop up and then further inflate the property market with QE, ZIRP, FLS, HTB etc etc


As hard as you seem to find it to grasp I'm not complaining about my personal situation, anybody buying now is getting an abysmal deal compared to just about any other generation before them, paying huge proportions of their wages for just about the whole of their working lives and yet they still act like they've won the lottery, I'm guessing they're either too ill informed to realise just how much they're being shafted or just too proud to admit it.

I understand the point you're trying to make, but the alternative is to rent for you're whole life, more than likely pay more in rent each month that your mortgage would be and have nothing to show at the end of it. Unless you're aware of some kind of secret way of living rent and mortgage free meaning you have your whole monthly wage to yourself?

At least if you pay for your house your entire working life by the time you retire you should have no mortgage left and can downsize and release some equity if necessary.

You also need to remember that during those halcyon years where house prices were a fraction of what they are now, interest rates were 10 times the amount. The monthly payment on the same sized house was probably not far off the same.

 

[sir baconface]

You're completely missing every point I'm attempting to make, not sure if that's my fault or yours...

How on earth do I ''have the choice to sell off my £180k asset and do something with the cash'' other than selling my house and buying a tent to live in????

I bought a property in 2001, nice 2 bed in a nice area, on a single, part time, unskilled wage with a 25% deposit (that was £15k NOT the £25k you've quoted) and I paid the mortgage off in 8 years... All of that would be completely impossible for any FTBer to do now thanks to the rampant HPI we've witnessed in the last 20 years

I don't want to trade up, but, if I did it would be impossible as HPI has massively outstripped wage inflation in that time.... Without HPI I'd now have a £60k asset and be looking to trade up to a £90k asset, requiring a £30k mortgage which would be doable on my wages... with HPI I've got a £180k asset but would need to trade up to a £270k asset, requiring a £90k mortgage completely impossible on my wages.

It's not even as though the crazy levels of HPI we've seen since around the year 2000 have been as a result of a free market economy or natural supply and demand etc... there have been 2 distinct periods of HPI in that time, both with very specific causes -

2001-2008 Was a result of reckless, irresponsible and often fraudulent lending by the banks.
Post 2008 to present day has been as a result of deliberate govt and BoE policy to initially prop up and then further inflate the property market with QE, ZIRP, FLS, HTB etc etc


As hard as you seem to find it to grasp I'm not complaining about my personal situation, anybody buying now is getting an abysmal deal compared to just about any other generation before them, paying huge proportions of their wages for just about the whole of their working lives and yet they still act like they've won the lottery, I'm guessing they're either too ill informed to realise just how much they're being shafted or just too proud to admit it.

Think long term, mate.

A strategy of moving two or three times in your lifetime could see you end up in, say, a £500k property. Trade down on retirement, buy a decent pad and put £250k into your retirement fund.

Compare that with renting. Pay out a fortune, have zero security, be at the landlord's mercy and accumulate somewhere between diddly squat and fcuk all capital. Even if you stay put, you're better off than renting.

It's a no brainer. The population pressure simply has to keep pushing up prices in the longer run, Brexit or no Brexit.

 

[sir baconface]

I understand the point you're trying to make, but the alternative is to rent for you're whole life, more than likely pay more in rent each month that your mortgage would be and have nothing to show at the end of it. Unless you're aware of some kind of secret way of living rent and mortgage free meaning you have your whole monthly wage to yourself?

At least if you pay for your house your entire working life by the time you retire you should have no mortgage left and can downsize and release some equity if necessary.

You also need to remember that during those halcyon years where house prices were a fraction of what they are now, interest rates were 10 times the amount. The monthly payment on the same sized house was probably not far off the same.

This. There was a time when I was paying 15% interest, probably around 1979/80. That's fifteen fcukin per cent in English. Somebody please remind me of the current rate.

The main problem now - and granted it is a problem - is saving the deposit.

Fcuk that though. Kill your parents or rob an old lady and get on that ladder ;)

 

[denislawsbackheel]

As above plus over the life of my mortgage 1975-2002 the average rate was around 9%.

They are virtually interest free now in comparison.

 

[Blue Maverick]

I'm just in the process of trading up to move out of the area I'm in to give my little girl some where better to grow up the only downside is I wil have to use all my tax free lump sum to pay the house off when I retire, however I see this as my daughters inheritance now. When I and eventually her mother shuffle off it will all be hers. Alternatively when one of us is gone the other may downsize and give her a sizeable deposit for her own house with the rest to follow, if we rented she'd have nothing. I do hate the obsession with buying and I'd certainly say to my daughter rent to find where you really want to live then buy.

 

[denislawsbackheel]

Paying off your mortgage with your retirement lump sum is pretty common.

I did.