House of Lords - Bashing the Bishops

[El_george]

You mean the metropolitan police battered a load of women?

Perhaps we could get some tanks to run over protesters...

At least the women at that vigil for Sarah Everard had a valid point (bad eggs in the Police Service) whilst extinction rebellion are just trying to make themselves look virtuous whilst annoying the general public and for a hopeless cause.

But the other point I was making: laws were brought in quickly and the Police acted upon them in the pandemic, but now the pandemic has gone away changes to laws - e.g. closing the loophole on slowly walking on a highway is back to moving at a snails pace - like the protesters themselves!

 

[Mr Kobayashi]

At least the women at that vigil for Sarah Everard had a valid point (bad eggs in the Police Service) whilst extinction rebellion are just trying to make themselves look virtuous whilst annoying the general public and for a hopeless cause.

But the other point I was making: laws were brought in quickly and the Police acted upon them in the pandemic, but now the pandemic has gone away changes to laws - e.g. closing the loophole on slowly walking on a highway is back to moving at a snails pace - like the protesters themselves!

Ah so you only people you agree with should be able to protest?

Go to Westminster, you can see various protests and displays, including covid deniers, Iran human rights, Palestinian liberation. Pop over to China Town and you can see the Falun Gong protesting about organ harvesting of prisoners of conscience in the PRC.

They all cause some disruption and disturbance on some level and I doubt everyone cares about all those issues.

 

[El_george]

Ah so you only people you agree with should be able to protest?

Go to Westminster, you can see various protests and displays, including covid deniers, Iran human rights, Palestinian liberation. Pop over to China Town and you can see the Falun Gong protesting about organ harvesting of prisoners of conscience in the PRC.

They all cause some disruption and disturbance on some level and I doubt everyone cares about all those issues.

They don't cause the same disruption as people walking slowly in roads or climbing up and chaining themselves to bridges on the M25. But the point I am making: maybe one day Iran will respect human rights, maybe one day there will be Palestinian liberation - perhaps harvesting of organs of prisoners of conscience (in China) will end. Unlikely, I know, but whilst China and other developing countries invest in fossil fuel energy generation climate change is not going to be ended by a few loonies in England being annoying. Laws should have already been brought in to stop it and the Lords should not be blocking it.

 

[law74]

China is building more than half of the world's new coal power plants

China accounted for 52 per cent of the 176 gigawatts of coal capacity under construction in 20 countries last year, according to the Global Energy Monitor

www.newscientist.com

The point I am making is China are building more than half the worl'd new coal power plants. Climate change needs to be dealt with by the United Nations on a global level. These anarchists disrupting traffick in the UK are just pi$$ing in the wind and it should be stopped and the Lords will be wrong to stop it being stopped.

Ahh, I think I have understood your thought process.
Because China are contributing to the end of human life through climate change, instead of trying to at least slow down global warming, we should join them in speeding up the process so that it has more impact on our children and not on our grandchildren.
Can't honestly say that I agree with your philosophy, but understand your right to express yourself.

 

[The Light Was Yellow Sir]

China is building more than half of the world's new coal power plants

China accounted for 52 per cent of the 176 gigawatts of coal capacity under construction in 20 countries last year, according to the Global Energy Monitor

www.newscientist.com

The point I am making is China are building more than half the worl'd new coal power plants. Climate change needs to be dealt with by the United Nations on a global level. These anarchists disrupting traffick in the UK are just pi$$ing in the wind and it should be stopped and the Lords will be wrong to stop it being stopped.

Best thing we could do is stop buying stuff from China and mainly trade with our closest geographical neighbours. Oh, wait…………

 

[Dave Ewing's Back 'eader]

Like all religion - backwards not forwards looking and is of little interest to most people - why they continue to have this entitlement in the legislature is beyond me

The alternative would be no better, and could be a lot worse - like the thread on PL2. We would have House of Commons 2! Just another drain on the exchequer.

 

[The Light Was Yellow Sir]

Like all religion - backwards not forwards looking and is of little interest to most people - why they continue to have this entitlement in the legislature is beyond me

As opposed to some randoms who’ve been shoved in there by the current government or an ex Prime Minister?
I completely agree the HOL is an outdated establishment but I’m not sure the Bishops are necessarily the biggest issue..
We‘ve got 25 members of the ‘Lords Spiritual’ with 260 conservatives, 174 Labour and 83 Liberals out of a total of 780.

If it was up to me, the Lords would go, the commons would become a museum and they’d get a proper building to do their work in. Bin off black rod and all that pomposity and get MP’s doing their jobs..

 

[MillionMilesAway]

The alternative would be no better, and could be a lot worse - like the thread on PL2. We would have House of Commons 2! Just another drain on the exchequer.

I've said before that the biggest problem with whatever the replacement is is making it fair and not immediately hijacked by the big political parties or just not competent to be of use.

I like there being people who can criticise govt lunacy without having anything to lose - as @The Light Was Yellow Sir says, there aren't many bishops as a percentage, and as far as I know they rarely get involved in non-social issues. However, if the Archbishop of Canterbury comes to the House and criticises something, then the argument has already been lost long beforehand.

I'd also want the replacement to have some forum where Those What Know Stuff (e.g. the former diplomats, economists, scientists, military, some politicians, civil servants, emergency services, ...) have a serious input. Maybe with a minimum activity level, or on call to give opinions.

 

[Vic]

So Putin's now bashing the bishops!

 

[domalino]

I've said before that the biggest problem with whatever the replacement is is making it fair and not immediately hijacked by the big political parties or just not competent to be of use.

I like there being people who can criticise govt lunacy without having anything to lose - as @The Light Was Yellow Sir says, there aren't many bishops as a percentage, and as far as I know they rarely get involved in non-social issues. However, if the Archbishop of Canterbury comes to the House and criticises something, then the argument has already been lost long beforehand.

I'd also want the replacement to have some forum where Those What Know Stuff (e.g. the former diplomats, economists, scientists, military, some politicians, civil servants, emergency services, ...) have a serious input. Maybe with a minimum activity level, or on call to give opinions.

The problem really is not with the fact there's bishops, it's that a secular society only 1 religion - CofE - has representation

Of the 30 million Britons who give a religion on the census, 5 million are catholics, 4 million muslim, 1 million Hindu, 500k Sikh, 300k Jewish, 300k Buddhist.

They should bump it up from 3% of the Lords to 5% and create about 25 lordships for Imams, Catholic bishops, Rabbis, Gurus, Pujaris etc. Religion is a massive part of many people's lives and our government bodies should reflect that.

As for the bigger idea of a House of Lords replacement, I've always thought the absolute first step is removing all hereditary peers.

Then you have to start by deciding on a total number you want, ie 750.

After that I think it's fairly basic in the broad strokes. Split that into the areas we want representation from - Religious leaders. Business leaders, Civil Servants, Judiciary, Military, Politicians, Arts, Science, Sport etc.

Give them all an amount of seats and then require a supermajority to appoint someone so that 1 party can't ram everyone through.

Put in term length - 10 years maybe, so there's a slow but steady turnover whilst maintaining high amounts of continuity.


Lords reform is not difficult because the process of setting up a higher chamber of government is so hard to do - almost every country has one - it's difficult because there's so much resitiance to change.