How do we resolve the Brexit mess?

Gabriel said:
True, and when you listen to some of those involved in the Grimsby fishing industry, they know they made a mistake. The point has been reached, however, where hearing people in a food bank admit they were wrong is of little succour to anyone.
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Not much fishing from Grimsby for years. Last time City played there, the chippie ran out of fish, and we asked how you could run out of fish in Grimsby and they were complaining that all the fish was now landed in Hull.
 
VOOMER said:
Read the article and its links, it deals with the hear and now. The past can go back to 1973, when we cut out ship building capacity by 63% to allow orders to then be placed with Greek and Italian ship yards. History is not selective, or trendy in its outcomes.
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You've made that up, I think. Source? I presume 1973 because that's when we joined the EC. How exactly did we "cut capacity" (implying we had to do it)?

Employment in UK shipbuilding in 1973 (before we joined the EC) was a third of what it was in 1948.

"United Kingdom shipbuilding has had an indifferent record in recent years, with static or falling output despite a growing world demand for ships. In 1955 its merchant ship output of 1.3 million gross registered tons was larger than that of any other country and amounted to 26 per cent. of the world total. By the end of 1973 our industry was sixth in the world, having been overtaken by Japan, Sweden, West Germany, Spain and France; and the 1973 output of 1.06 million gross registered tons was only 3.6 per cent. of the world total." (Hansard)

And that was with big taxpayer subsidies.

Labour nationalised the industry in 1977.
 
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Vic said:
You've made that up, I think. Source? I presume 1973 because that's when we joined the EC. How exactly did we "cut capacity" (implying we had to do it)?

Employment in UK shipbuilding in 1973 (before we joined the EC) was a third of what it was in 1948.

"United Kingdom shipbuilding has had an indifferent record in recent years, with static or falling output despite a growing world demand for ships. In 1955 its merchant ship output of 1.3 million gross registered tons was larger than that of any other country and amounted to 26 per cent. of the world total. By the end of 1973 our industry was sixth in the world, having been overtaken by Japan, Sweden, West Germany, Spain and France; and the 1973 output of 1.06 million gross registered tons was only 3.6 per cent. of the world total." (Hansard)

And that was with big taxpayer subsidies.

Labour nationalised the industry in 1977.
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No, I discovered it and will rediscover it when I was looking at the legacy of pension scheme.
 
Corelli Barnett wrote a whole series of books about the UK, before, during and after WW2. I strongly recommend them to anyone who wants to understand modern Britain and how we got here. In fact, if I was PM, they would be compulsory reading in secondary schools.

On the UK shipbuilding industry - in a nutshell, it failed because it was shite. Customers found they could get ships cheaper (and built on time, not delayed) from other countries. So they took their business elsewhere.

Whether you are in or out of the EU, if your industries are obsolete and uncompetitive, they will not be able to compete. Fancy that! However, if you have a North Korean or East German attitude you can force your home consumers to buy shite, but that's as far as it goes. Does anyone fancy driving a Trabant?
 
BrianW said:
Corelli Barnett wrote a whole series of books about the UK, before, during and after WW2. I strongly recommend them to anyone who wants to understand modern Britain and how we got here. In fact, if I was PM, they would be compulsory reading in secondary schools.

On the UK shipbuilding industry - in a nutshell, it failed because it was shite. Customers found they could get ships cheaper (and built on time, not delayed) from other countries. So they took their business elsewhere.

Whether you are in or out of the EU, if your industries are obsolete and uncompetitive, they will not be able to compete. Fancy that! However, if you have a North Korean or East German attitude you can force your home consumers to buy shite, but that's as far as it goes. Does anyone fancy driving a Trabant?
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I saw a documentary once where it was claimed the Americans with their Liberty Ships in WW2 changed the game. The Yanks were welding pre-fabricated sections together whereas shipyard owners here were adamant that wasn't how you built ships - they had to be riveted. Far more costly, labour intensive and slower. The rest was history.
 
Vic said:
I can't see anything there to match what you claimed. Where did "63%" come from? All I can find is that we had to curb state aid to the industry, but nothing to say we had to close shipyards (at any time) because of the EU.

Just more anti-EU bollocks, I guess.
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You clearly haven't read it.
 
VOOMER said:
You clearly haven't read it.
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What's "it"? Where's "1973, when we cut out ship building capacity by 63% to allow orders to then be placed with Greek and Italian ship yards"?

If it's a genuine quote from somewhere, it's still anti-EU bollocks. Greece wasn't a member state in 1973 - though Greeks including Onassis owned a big share of British shipyards.
 
BrianW said:
Corelli Barnett wrote a whole series of books about the UK, before, during and after WW2. I strongly recommend them to anyone who wants to understand modern Britain and how we got here. In fact, if I was PM, they would be compulsory reading in secondary schools.

On the UK shipbuilding industry - in a nutshell, it failed because it was shite. Customers found they could get ships cheaper (and built on time, not delayed) from other countries. So they took their business elsewhere.

Whether you are in or out of the EU, if your industries are obsolete and uncompetitive, they will not be able to compete. Fancy that! However, if you have a North Korean or East German attitude you can force your home consumers to buy shite, but that's as far as it goes. Does anyone fancy driving a Trabant?
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UK is good at providing services ( including arts etc) and that important sector has suffered from leaving the EU.
Also inward investment into the UK in industrial and manufacturing has declined significantly following Brexit.
 
Now zolpidem is out of stock and we cant get parrel import of it because of brexit ,third problem like this with different meds since brexit
 
Vic said:
I want to know how many ardent Brexiteers have got Irish passports since the vote.
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I got one just to be on the safe side. Though I've also got Spanish residecia and a couple of other documents that may or may not get me into certain countries..
Obviously I'm not a Brexiteer. I'm a ****, but not that much of a ****.
 
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