How do we resolve the Brexit mess?

gordondaviesmoustache said:
This is why leaving was so utterly reckless. If it wasn’t Covid, or Ukraine it would have been something else. To fail to appreciate this, is to fail to understand how the world works. We have unnecessarily exposed ourselves to the vagaries of international and human events. Being part of something bigger afforded us a degree of protection against the unforeseen.

The arrogance required to walk away from that layer of protection is utterly staggering. A completely reckless act that will be the undoing of this nation.
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Absolutely. It is a tad ironic that the Brexit admirals proclaimed that an unmoored UK would be liberated and free to benefit from sailing nimbly through international waters, yet they no sooner got out of La Manche to find ruddy great tankers bearing down on them and had to slip back into harbour. Even without Pugwash at the helm, the same perils lie ahead, but pointing out the bleeding obvious is now somehow doing down the country, which might soon become a treasonous act.
 
threespires said:
Looked at objectively this has all the credibility of a 'wellness' infomercial touting the benefits of monkey semen infused mung beans as a cure for male pattern baldness, building a six pack or enhancing your genitalia.

But people believe what they want to believe, especially if they are desperate and something appears to offer hope or a simple fix to their problems. Cynical scumbags have always sold cures for all ailments, it was once they moved from the fairground to dominate the mainstream political arena that we ended up in trouble.
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Yeah but what should baffle anyone with two brain cells or more should be why now we are no longer in the EU and all the problems are being reported on why not take your ire out on those deceitful clowns who brainwashed them there? Instead in the absence of the EU they blame France for people crossing in dinghies also its the people in dinghies fault. They blame their fellow citizens for not being "patriotic" enough and even Spain for insisting that we must follow the 3rd country rules we helped set up when EU members and that we enforce on people coming here - because we are a 3rd country.

Single brain celled beings are more plentiful than I had ever thought.
 
bluethrunthru said:
Yeah but what should baffle anyone with two brain cells or more should be why now we are no longer in the EU and all the problems are being reported on why not take your ire out on those deceitful clowns who brainwashed them there? Instead in the absence of the EU they blame France for people crossing in dinghies also its the people in dinghies fault. They blame their fellow citizens for not being "patriotic" enough and even Spain for insisting that we must follow the 3rd country rules we helped set up when EU members and that we enforce on people coming here - because we are a 3rd country.

Single brain celled beings are more plentiful than I had ever thought.
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A fair number of people will double down because no one likes to feel they've been taken for a fool and will just bury their heads in the sand. Others are doing it because they're now comfortable that their long held xenophobic outlook is socially acceptable and if the rest of its a shitshow so what. Others still have fully drunk the mail/express koolaid and appear completely brainwashed. As for anyone genuinely playing the patriotism card given what has gone before, it is indeed operating at amoeba levels of cognition.

But I have to say that the most common reaction I see from leavers I know is either buyers remorse or to just change the subject and pretend it never happened.
 
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threespires said:
Looked at objectively this has all the credibility of a 'wellness' infomercial touting the benefits of monkey semen infused mung beans as a cure for male pattern baldness, building a six pack or enhancing your genitalia.

But people believe what they want to believe, especially if they are desperate and something appears to offer hope or a simple fix to their problems. Cynical scumbags have always sold cures for all ailments, it was once they moved from the fairground to dominate the mainstream political arena that we ended up in trouble.
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Especially as 80% of the media avoid even talking about the root problem. As a country we are perfectly happy for those that have defrauded us to trot happily into wealthy retirement with Absolutely no fucks given.
 
threespires said:
A fair number of people will double down because no one likes to feel they've been taken for a fool and will just bury their heads in the sand. Others are doing it because they're now comfortable that their long held xenophobic outlook is socially acceptable and if the rest of its a shitshow so what. Others still have fully drunk the mail/express koolaid and appear completely brainwashed. As for anyone genuinely playing the patriotism card given what has gone before, is indeed operating at amoeba levels of cognition.

But I have to say that the most common reaction I see from leavers I know is to either buyers remorse or just change the subject and pretend it never happened.
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What are the chances of buyers' remorse reaching critical mass? From the polls, around 20% of leave voters seem to have realised it was the wrong decision. It only took one boy in the King's New Clothes to destroy the illusion, but I suspect the Brexit illusion has already been destroyed, and that even Mail / Express readers know the whole Brexit opportunity crap is crap but consume the nonsense like a sort of comfort eating.

I'll stop before I mix metaphors any more.
 
Saddleworth2 said:
Especially as 80% of the media avoid even talking about the root problem. As a country we are perfectly happy for those that have defrauded us to trot happily into wealthy retirement with Absolutely no fucks given.
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A politician's life.
 
Gabriel said:
It’s not simply the fact that they wilfully misled the people but the fact that they so horribly misread the international situation, and continue to do so. The narrative persists that everything will be okay once the international situation returns to the balance of 2015. It won’t and it never will: Russia is set for the long game in Ukraine, China is not posturing and can turn the screw, and India will have its pound of flesh.

If anything, the international situation is going to develop in ways that make Brexit successes even more unlikely.
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You have to calculate how much Brexit has led Russia and China to perceive an opportunity.
 
Vic said:
You have to calculate how much Brexit has led Russia and China to perceive an opportunity.
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I think the American withdrawal from Afghanistan was more the catalyst for their exerting themselves, though
Brexit and American isolationism under Trump certainly encouraged them, which is why their peoples should want the fullest investigation into what happened to allow both.
 
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