How do we resolve the Brexit mess?

[gordondaviesmoustache]

There isn't a mess, the UK should determine its own future.

By leaving, we’ve reduced the ability to determine our own future.

 

[threespires]

There isn't a mess, the UK should determine it's own future.

If by the UK you mean its people then I wholeheartedly agree. I'd start by wholesale reform of our press and media which is failing us completely as a democracy by allowing a small number of billionaires to poison people's minds. I'd also make sure someone like Musk couldn't bankroll someone like Farage. I'd chuck in PR too but I probably wouldn't have a referendum on it. In fact I'd make sure we didn't use a plebiscite again unless and until we've addressed our inability as a country to rationally debate something at a level beyond three word slogans.

 

[Churchlawtonblue]

There isn't a mess, the UK should determine it's own future.

Well, you wouldn't believe it reading the doom and gloom merchants on here, but we are currently in a better position than many countries within the EU. People on here don't like being reminded of that, it simply doesn't fit their narrative.

Ironically many of the same people can be found on another thread, defending the new goverments economic policies regardless, despite massive warning signs from many areas that their policies and recent budget could send us into recession?

 

[roubaixtuesday]

Well, you wouldn't believe it reading the doom and gloom merchants on here, but we are currently in a better position than many countries within the EU. People on here don't like being reminded of that, it simply doesn't fit their narrative

Being in a better position than some countries in the EU is not the same as Brexit improving things.

How difficult a concept can that possibly be?

 

[roubaixtuesday]

There isn't a mess, the UK should determine it's own future.

There most definitely is a mess; our dealings with our nearest neighbours are far messier than they are with each other.

And this may come as a surprise to you, but shaping our own future is helped rather than hindered by influence with our neighbours.

 

[Churchlawtonblue]

Being in a better position than some countries in the EU is not the same as Brexit improving things.

How difficult a concept can that possibly be?

How difficult is it for you to accept that we are in a better position than some countries ? Seemingly impossible it would seem. It's clearly a fact that you don't like.

 

[hampshireblue]

How difficult is it for you to accept that we are in a better position than some countries ? Seemingly impossible it would seem. It's clearly a fact that you don't like.

Well it does depend over which period you look but looking back to 2016, it would appear that we are around 13th out of 27 in terms of growth. So bang in the middle. I don't know if any work has been done to analyse the affect of us leaving on the rest of the EU, but I would be surprised if it didn't have some impact.

It is now proven to be a significant retrograde step as far the UK economy is concerned. I'm sure you'll have no problem agreeing with that.

 

[Churchlawtonblue]

The simple fact is Brexit was a democratic choice the country made, 52% of the population voted for it. Just like a GE is a democratic vote. The new Governŵment got what 32% of the vote last July, so much less of a mandate than leaving the EU. The new Government will make mistakes as all governments do. They will cost us money and we could be worse off, hopefully not, but it could be the case. But rather than the incessant moaning about them like you and your kind on here do about brexit isn't it better to try and stay positive and optimistic. Having mostly voted LD in the past, this July I voted Labour for the first time in my life, my local seat changed from Conservative to Labour. I am concerned about the economy going forwards based on the autumn budget, but we are where we are and imo, you have to stay optimistic and hope for the best. Cheers

 

[tweety]

Well, you wouldn't believe it reading the doom and gloom merchants on here, but we are currently in a better position than many countries within the EU. People on here don't like being reminded of that, it simply doesn't fit their narrative.

Ironically many of the same people can be found on another thread, defending the new goverments economic policies regardless, despite massive warning signs from many areas that their policies and recent budget could send us into recession?

I've very rarely commented on this forum but it's good to throw the occasional grenade into the mix.

 

[Churchlawtonblue]

I've very rarely commented on this forum but it's good to throw the occasional grenade into the mix.

I rarely comment on this thread as I know it's mostly occupied with posters who can't accept what happened and have convinced themselves Brexit was the end of their world as they knew it. I realise I won't change their view or stop them complaining as the thread was specifically set up for them to moan about Brexit.

I just like to offer an alternative more positive view point. Anyway I feel its time to leave them to it.

 

[blueparrot]

How difficult is it for you to accept that we are in a better position than some countries ? Seemingly impossible it would seem. It's clearly a fact that you don't like.

But a far worse one than we would have been had we stayed in. More than 1 thing can be true at a time.

 

[roubaixtuesday]

How difficult is it for you to accept that we are in a better position than some countries ? Seemingly impossible it would seem. It's clearly a fact that you don't like.

No, we're definitely in a better position than Romania. Nobody disputes this.

You, however, cannot mention the negative effects of Brexit on the UK without bringing up entirely different matters.

So, once again, simple logic:

The negative effects of Brexit in the UK are regardless of the circumstances of other countries.

 

[roubaixtuesday]

But a far worse one than we would have been had we stayed in. More than 1 thing can be true at a time.

This is an impossible concept for @Churchlawtonblue alas.

 

[Alan Harper's Tash]

I rarely comment on this thread as I know it's mostly occupied with posters who can't accept what happened and have convinced themselves Brexit was the end of their world as they knew it. I realise I won't change their view or stop them complaining as the thread was specifically set up for them to moan about Brexit.

I just like to offer an alternative more positive view point. Anyway I feel its time to leave them to it.

You don’t offer any viewpoint. You play devil’s advocate and WUM the thread.

 

[hampshireblue]

Well, you wouldn't believe it reading the doom and gloom merchants on here, but we are currently in a better position than many countries within the EU. People on here don't like being reminded of that, it simply doesn't fit their narrative.

Ironically many of the same people can be found on another thread, defending the new goverments economic policies regardless, despite massive warning signs from many areas that their policies and recent budget could send us into recession?

If you go back to 2016(other dates are available) we have the 13th biggest GDP growth out of 27 EU nations. so whilst we are "better than many" we are also worse "than many".

 

[hampshireblue]

The simple fact is Brexit was a democratic choice the country made, 52% of the population voted for it. Just like a GE is a democratic vote. The new Governŵment got what 32% of the vote last July, so much less of a mandate than leaving the EU. The new Government will make mistakes as all governments do. They will cost us money and we could be worse off, hopefully not, but it could be the case. But rather than the incessant moaning about them like you and your kind on here do about brexit isn't it better to try and stay positive and optimistic. Having mostly voted LD in the past, this July I voted Labour for the first time in my life, my local seat changed from Conservative to Labour. I am concerned about the economy going forwards based on the autumn budget, but we are where we are and imo, you have to stay optimistic and hope for the best. Cheers

You're right and I'm sure most people have actually accepted the result. But that doesn't mean that the 48% are not entitled to point out the failings, unintended consequesnces and the general shitshow that it has become. The real danger of course is that the very same voters who believed the likes of Farage in 2016 are now in danger of doing the same thing the next time there is a General Election. I think his attitude towards his constituents gives a really good indication of what he feels about Joe public-nada.

 

[Mazzarelli's Swiss Cheese]

I rarely comment on this thread as I know it's mostly occupied with posters who can't accept what happened and have convinced themselves Brexit was the end of their world as they knew it. I realise I won't change their view or stop them complaining as the thread was specifically set up for them to moan about Brexit.

I just like to offer an alternative more positive view point. Anyway I feel its time to leave them to it.

Ultimately Brexit is largely irrelevant now. It's happened and is in the past. The economic impact has since been overtaken and almost made irrelevant in economic terms by the pandemic and the conflict in Ukraine. Putin's slightly strange decision to blow up nordstream rather than just turn off the tap at his end has had more impact really.

 

[gordondaviesmoustache]

You're right and I'm sure most people have actually accepted the result. But that doesn't mean that the 48% are not entitled to point out the failings, unintended consequesnces and the general shitshow that it has become.

I don’t think there’s a single poster on here who’s called to rejoin. It would require a series of highly improbable events to even be a possibility. It simply isn’t going to happen for the foreseeable, and at the very least for a generation. The matter is settled.

Thing is, strident Eurosceptics were just as tedious about the EU when we were members as anyone on here is about leaving, so moaning about things now the roles are reversed is more than a bit rich.

 

[BrianW]

I'm quite ready to step up to the plate and say we should rejoin. If only because the alternative is to become a sort of tin-pot Puerto Rico.

However, I have no illusions about the long and difficult path before us. All the more reason for taking steps in the right general direction. Even joining the European Economic Area would be an advance.

 

[Really_here]

I still think we'd have been better staying in and trying to change some of the things we didn't agree with rather than say we're not playing any more and leaving. We'll never know if it would have worked out but IMHO it might just have been better for us to stick at it. I certainly struggle to see what improvements we've seen here since leaving and I quite liked being "European".