How do we resolve the Brexit mess?

Hgblue2 said:
Because the most sustainable, successful, stable form of government is the nation state.

No foreign superstate is sending my kids to die in a war EVER, not happening.

Laws and decisions of that nature should be taken by a government that is elected by and is accountable to the people.

1. What power do you have? 2. Where did you get it from? 3. In whose interests do you exercise it? 4. To whom are you accountable? 5. How can we get rid of you? (with thanks Tony Benn).

It's a simple question of national sovereignty. That is the objection.
Click to expand...
Did you forget your old password?!! :-)
 
Hgblue2 said:
Because the most sustainable, successful, stable form of government is the nation state.

No foreign superstate is sending my kids to die in a war EVER, not happening.

Laws and decisions of that nature should be taken by a government that is elected by and is accountable to the people.

1. What power do you have? 2. Where did you get it from? 3. In whose interests do you exercise it? 4. To whom are you accountable? 5. How can we get rid of you? (with thanks Tony Benn).

It's a simple question of national sovereignty. That is the objection.
Click to expand...
Sounds like project fear that to me
 
hampshireblue said:
I assume you don't have a problem with NATO though? I only ask as there may be a need to do so at some stage to maintain some nation states. There is some talk that Trump may want European boots on the ground should a deal be done with Ukraine. It could be argued that a foreign superstate would be forcing us, albeit indirectly, into that position.
Click to expand...
We had boots on the ground in the Gulf and Afghanistan, both at the request of the USA.
 
hampshireblue said:
??
Click to expand...
They used to post under a similar username and were stridently Leave. I profoundly disagree(d) with them but didn’t/don’t have an issue with their views which were never founded in suffocating delusion about leaving.

Their objection to the EU was political, not economic. Don’t share that view, but it’s undeniably honest.

Leaving was always going to make us discernibly poorer and I never had a massive problem with the anyone who acknowledged that and still wanted to leave because nonetheless they didn’t want to be part of the EU.

It’s the daft cunts who deluded themselves that we’d be better off and there would be less red tape who I had an issue with.
 
bluethrunthru said:
delusional - could only work if he could throw out a benefit more tangible than "we need to move on"

Click to expand...

“We need to move on” and ignore the damage his party brought on our country. Silence from remains no I want to shout it loud scruffy Johnson led us down a path of no return.
Cooper is trying to clean up the damage done on immigration because Johnson didn’t read the small print
 
Kirkstall Blue said:
“We need to move on” and ignore the damage his party brought on our country. Silence from remains no I want to shout it loud scruffy Johnson led us down a path of no return.
Cooper is trying to clean up the damage done on immigration because Johnson didn’t read the small print
Click to expand...
Votes are in the headlines, not the small print.
 
'Move on' is the Tories' favourite mantra.

But funnily, they never want to 'move on' regarding Brown selling 'our' gold or Callaghan going (unnecessarily as it proved) to the IMF.

They are hypocrites.
 
BrianW said:
'Move on' is the Tories' favourite mantra.

But funnily, they never want to 'move on' regarding Brown selling 'our' gold or Callaghan going (unnecessarily as it proved) to the IMF.

They are hypocrites.
Click to expand...

Indeed.

Let’s all jump on the threads discussing those things still shall we?
 
The perfect fumble said:
Not talking about a disaster does not make it any less disastrous, it makes it worse.
Click to expand...

The debate should focus on improving our lot and not just be a regurgitation of old arguments.

We are out, ain’t going back in and only the future matters or can be affected.
 
gordondaviesmoustache said:
They used to post under a similar username and were stridently Leave. I profoundly disagree(d) with them but didn’t/don’t have an issue with their views which were never founded in suffocating delusion about leaving.

Their objection to the EU was political, not economic. Don’t share that view, but it’s undeniably honest.

Leaving was always going to make us discernibly poorer and I never had a massive problem with the anyone who acknowledged that and still wanted to leave because nonetheless they didn’t want to be part of the EU.

It’s the daft cunts who deluded themselves that we’d be better off and there would be less red tape who I had an issue with.
Click to expand...
What are people referring to when they say that we are better or worse off? The remain campaign predicted a day one apocalypse which didn't happen. We left in 2020 and UK GDP is now 15-20% higher, growth has often exceeeded the rest of Europe and today it is on par with Europe so what are people referring to?

What about the FTSE? Nope, the FTSE is the highest it has ever been. There is an argument around impact on small businesses but if small businesses are on the brink of failure due to Brexit then can anybody explain why Labour have decided to help them out and boost their growth by imposing an NI increase upon them?

The fact is if you are poor then you are neither better off or worse off, everything is exactly the same because you were poor in the EU and you are still poor now we're out. No poor person really benefited from the EU, the economics were good for big companies of course but not always for people. My father in law was made redundant because his automotive job was farmed to cheaper labor in Poland and well surprise he voted to leave the EU.

You only have to ask why were people so easily sold a possible better life after leave? It's because their lives weren't exactly going great whilst in the EU. There are many facets to that, was it the 2008 crash? Was it austerity? Either way the argument that you will be worse off doesn't really hammer home when things are already crap.

So it's actually a folly, being part of the EU is actually mostly irrelevant to most people's lives except for maybe when they decide to grace the continent on their package holiday once a year (if they're lucky). So for those people leaving the EU perhaps means at most that they will be €6 worse off every 3 years....
 
blueinsa said:
The debate should focus on improving our lot and not just be a regurgitation of old arguments.

We are out, ain’t going back in and only the future matters or can be affected.
Click to expand...
I agree that it is the future that matters and how we can make a success for what we've been landed with.

But I think the issue is we've not had anyone of any prominence from the leave side have the balls to stand up and tell us they and the voters got it wrong. They always blame the politicians and the implementation, not the actual concept and decision. Well, they knew who our politicians were that were going to be responsible for any deal, and now they blame it on them. They can no longer blame the EU politicians for things when they go wrong even though they still try in some areas. They wanted "sovereignty" and have got it apparently. And let's not forget that the UK are still not carrying out many of the checks on imports that we would normally do.

Rejoining is not an option but some sorts of closer links that allows businesses to trade more easily would be a start. After all they're only 22 miles away.
 
inbetween said:
What are people referring to when they say that we are better or worse off? The remain campaign predicted a day one apocalypse which didn't happen. We left in 2020 and UK GDP is now 15-20% higher, growth has often exceeeded the rest of Europe and today it is on par with Europe so what are people referring to?

What about the FTSE? Nope, the FTSE is the highest it has ever been. There is an argument around impact on small businesses but if small businesses are on the brink of failure due to Brexit then can anybody explain why Labour have decided to help them out and boost their growth by imposing an NI increase upon them?

The fact is if you are poor then you are neither better off or worse off, everything is exactly the same because you were poor in the EU and you are still poor now we're out. No poor person really benefited from the EU, the economics were good for big companies of course but not always for people. My father in law was made redundant because his automotive job was farmed to cheaper labor in Poland and well surprise he voted to leave the EU.

You only have to ask why were people so easily sold a possible better life after leave? It's because their lives weren't exactly going great whilst in the EU. There are many facets to that, was it the 2008 crash? Was it austerity? Either way the argument that you will be worse off doesn't really hammer home when things are already crap.

So it's actually a folly, being part of the EU is actually mostly irrelevant to most people's lives except for maybe when they decide to grace the continent on their package holiday once a year (if they're lucky). So for those people leaving the EU perhaps means at most that they will be €6 worse off every 3 years....
Click to expand...
from the National Institute for Economic research:

  • These estimates suggest that Brexit had already reduced UK real GDP relative to the baseline by just under one per cent in 2020 as consumers and businesses adapted their expectations even before the TCA came into force. Our estimates further suggest that three years after the transition period, UK real GDP is some 2-3 per cent lower due to Brexit, compared to a scenario where the United Kingdom retained EU membership. This corresponds to a per capita income loss of approximately £850.
  • Our estimates indicate that the negative impact of Brexit gradually escalates, reaching some 5-6 per cent of GDP or about £2,300 per capita by 2035. The reduction in real incomes resulting from the fall in the UK terms of trade associated with changes in trading relations with the European Union and the fall in productivity are the largest contributors to the estimated reduction in real GDP, with each accounting for over 2.5 percentage points.
So just a tad more than 6 Euros.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Unread Posts

Don't have an account? Register now and see fewer ads!

SIGN UP
Back
Top