How do we resolve the Brexit mess?

west didsblue said:
Agree with you about Blair, however a big part of his wide appeal in the run up to the 1997 election was driven by the fact that he managed to get most of the media onside, which was a huge enabler to be able to share his vision and strategy. At the moment, anything radical proposed by Starmer would be immediately be shot down by the Sun, Mail, Telegraph etc, and we know the impact they have amongst a significant proportion of the electorate. Starmer is doing what he has to do to get elected, and I’m still hopeful that we will see something different once in power and the media narrative becomes less relevant (at least for the first 3 years of a Parliament with a big majority). I could of course be totally wrong and he may well be a huge disappointment but a Labour government has got to be better than the current shit show, if only due to the fact that less of them are likely to be blatantly corrupt.
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I am sure any new government will be better than the bunch of crooks we have got in power. Blair and Campbell were certainly masters at handling the mainstream media. But the influence of the Sun, Mail, and Telegraph is vastly reduced in the digital era. Labour needs to much smarter and more proactive with other channels. They are still far too London-centred and trapped in cultural issues which are only of interest within the bubble of the London chattering classes. I think Lisa Nandy would get more votes than Starmer, especially in the North.
 
somapop said:
Speaking to my exes brother who's over from Italy to see them for a few days (he left England for Italy when he was around 16 and is now 55).
He now runs an Italian furniture manufacturing business after his uncle died last year. They have international offices but trade has been hammered for myriad reasons.
Clobbered by Covid, but sales are also down to the Britain - in his own words - due to the red tape of Brexit.
He was a supporter of Brexit.
Think he realises how wrong he was on that tbf.
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I’m good mates with an interiors bloke who imports over half his stuff from Italy, who’s been drip feeding me furniture over the course of this year. Big Notts County fan, married to an Italian. An absolute fucking gent.

When he started ordering me stuff in January he warned me it was a fuckimg nightmare getting stuff into the country. The form filling was insane. Was taking about twice as long for stuff to get here - and there was no effecive way of tracking it. You only know where it is when it turns up at his depot. And some Italian manufacturers aren’t bothering anymore.

He’s been absolutely spot on.

For me, it’s a first world problem. I live a very privileged life these days and people have far bigger problems than waiting for furniture. It’ll come when it comes.

But this is a microcosm of the way we have elected to make our lives more complicated. We have chosen to make it far harder to trade with our nearest neighbours.

What an unbelievably crazy and idiotic thing to do. Absolute fucking madness.
 
bobbyowenquiff said:
Here's my list:

No access to a GP for three years despite a life-threatening illness and two major operations
No NHS dentists
Bus services and train services slashed (when they are not on strike)
Police stations closed and also local courts
Two major hospitals under investigation for: baby deaths, and terrible A and E service (both caused by cuts)
No roads repaired for years, no repairs to streetlights, no drains and ditches cleared (local flooding)
Diabolical local postal service
Local swimming pool closed down and other leisure services cut
Most libraries shut and reduced hours for those remaining
Patchy and poor broadband coverage, especially in more rural areas
The local tip was closed requiring a ten mile drive to the nearest one.

You can't blame all these on Brexit but you can blame most of them on the worst Government I have ever suffered under. None of this has been helped by the ongoing pathetic performance of our main opposition party. I have stopped voting because I believe voting gives an endorsement to a corrupt and undemocratic political system which suits both the main parties and has devastated most of the country outside Greater London.
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All those things have happened under a Tory government but you don't think it's worth voting to get them out.

Stop complaining about cuts then.
 
Vic said:
All those things have happened under a Tory government but you don't think it's worth voting to get them out.

Stop complaining about cuts then.
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I believe our entire political process is flawed, undemocratic, and corrupt and by voting you endorse that system. Our political system just perpetuates failure. I would support a system which allowed people to vote "none of the above" because it might bring about change. Tribal politics has just accelerated the decline of the entire country and encouraged division.
I would consider voting if a democratic Proportional Representative system was introduced, the House of Lords was abolished, and lobbying was made illegal for commercial organisations. But none of the current main parties will ever quit the gravy train. I always voted Labour but John Prescot joining the House of Lords was my final straw.
 
bobbyowenquiff said:
I believe our entire political process is flawed, undemocratic, and corrupt and by voting you endorse that system. Our political system just perpetuates failure. I would support a system which allowed people to vote "none of the above" because it might bring about change. Tribal politics has just accelerated the decline of the entire country and encouraged division.
I would consider voting if a democratic Proportional Representative system was introduced, the House of Lords was abolished, and lobbying was made illegal for commercial organisations. But none of the current main parties will ever quit the gravy train. I always voted Labour but John Prescot joining the House of Lords was my final straw.
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The perfect is the enemy of the good.

But current Labour policy is to replace the Lords with an elected chamber
 
Vic said:
The perfect is the enemy of the good.

But current Labour policy is to replace the Lords with an elected chamber
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Both Blair and then Brown made that promise and never delivered. They just created more Labour peers. In any event we don't need a second chamber at all. Plenty of countries across the world manage perfectly well with just one chamber.

Unicameralism - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org en.wikipedia.org

The Lords is, and always has been, just a home for poitical cronies who can't wean themselves off the gravy train. It is a scandal and I don't believe for one minute that Starmer will do anything to stop it. I would consider supporting him if he had the balls to pledge to reverse the Brexit disaster as a matter of urgency. But he lacks courage and conviction. The Labour party used to have people with conviction like John Smith and Robin Cook who actually said what they believed in.
 
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