How do we resolve the Brexit mess?

[blueinsa]

Thank you.
Now it’s probably more down to me than yourself @blueinsa but I had not picked that up from you prior to now.
I knew you had regrets and saw through the lies etc., but that is very interesting to read, indeed.

Do you think any party will actually have rejoin in their manifesto though. It’s been pointed out that Labour won’t, but could you see that swing that way in the future if they got in with a large majority.

Look at this thread and the poison it contains and such is the division brexit caused and all the arguments before and after, it’s become trench warfare and not many will budge from their positions and no mainstream politicians or parties will touch it, it’s such a vote loser.
To quote a famous poster on here, “we have completely fucking blown it”

 

[Vic]

I’ll attempt one more time and then I’m out of here.

Leave aside the Brexit Mess part of the thread title. The underlying meaning of the thread from my understanding or reading of it would be, looking for suggestions on how to progress you country.
If your reading of that is how to limit the damage you perceive, great. I’m interested to hear.

If your perception is that you believe it was the right decision but the wrong implementation. Great. I still want to hear your suggestions on how to move forward.

If you regret having voted for it as some have bravely admitted in here, then don’t just tell me why you’re wasting your time in an echo chamber. What would you like to happen, moving forward and what kind of timeline do you see.

Same goes for remainers. Don’t tell me I’m wasting my time as the other side won’t give you answers. Tell if you see a way forward for you all. At the end of the day whether you like it or not, you’re in this together, no matter who you perceive got you there. And some seem to feel ‘there’ isn’t as bad as you make out.

I don’t know but I’m genuinely interested. Ultimately whatever you lot do, does affect us which gives me an added interest.

This is my last effort to steer this debate in that direction.
If you think, fuck you, it’s none of your business. Fine. Tell me to fuck off and I’ll fuck off.

Im a Dub after all. We’d choose righteous indignation over contentment any day of the week.

First things first. The Irish had the good sense to change their mind when they first voted the wrong way.

But I'm not sure there's any obvious way "forward" (i.e. back to sanity). I hope Ireland would be wanting to support UK REIABN (Re-entry in all but name, pronounced rehab)

But even that's not assured. Why change something that may be economically good for Ireland and politically good (a united Ireland)? And you're just one EU sovereign state who wouid be "in control".

There is no easy way back.

 

[mancity2012_eamo]

Look at this thread and the poison it contains and such is the division brexit caused and all the arguments before and after, it’s become trench warfare and not many will budge from their positions and no mainstream politicians or parties will touch it, it’s such a vote loser.
To quote a famous poster on here, “we have completely fucking blown it”

Do you genuinely believe that though, or is it someone else’s reality that you throw back as banter, or stronger.
Genuine question again, I’m not stirring it here.

The reason I ask is, I do believe you have hit the nail on the head for where the country seems to be. Certainly if what I’m reading in here is a true reflection of the country in general.

I worded some of my post with that in mind.
The poison as you call it, is obvious, but amongst ordinary folk and at grassroots political level, is there any evidence of anyone coming up with a plan to unite the United Kingdom. If you are all in it together, whatever it is, but the evidence in here seems to be that from both sides of the original vote, there is a realisation that you are in something you want out of.
If so, how do you convince ( this goes to all, remainers and brexiteers who are disillusioned) your fellow man of what you perceive to be the best way forward for the country.

That’s probably where my interest really is piqued.
Magicpole started this thread. I can see a clear path forward that is binary in the voting options, for Scotland.
It’s hypothetical, but they could leave the union.
Where would that leave The UK? Well up in Northern Ireland they are very aware of this and it scares certain elements shitless. It scares me a bit too I must say, as very real questions would raise their head down here, and my view has always been that the reality of that may not be what a lot of people expect.
So with Scotland gone and NI left in an uncertain UK future, where would the people of England and Wales stand. Would it be together or would you still be fighting each other? Would you fight to keep NI or as I believe and never understood why the hardline DUP don’t, their greatest protection is the GFA that they seem to despise and certainly not the Tories.

These really are interesting times, but as the Chinese curse says…….

 

[mancity2012_eamo]

First things first. The Irish had the good sense to change their mind when they first voted the wrong way.

But I'm not sure there's any obvious way "forward" (i.e. back to sanity). I hope Ireland would be wanting to support UK REIABN (Re-entry in all but name, pronounced rehab)

But even that's not assured. Why change something that may be economically good for Ireland and politically good (a united Ireland)? And you're just one EU sovereign state who wouid be "in control".

There is no easy way back.

Good point about the double referendums.
It was a joke that they’d keep asking until we got the right answer, but to be fair, on two occasions I can recall, our concerns were highlighted and addressed and another vote was put forward.

See above.

 

[blueinsa]

Do you genuinely believe that though, or is it someone else’s reality that you throw back as banter, or stronger.
Genuine question again, I’m not stirring it here.

I can’t cope with the constant doom and gloom of this forum mate so yes, I will joke at many things but on brexit, we have blown it as a country in many respects.

It was a needless question posed to all of us and far too many of us got it wrong.

 

[Vic]

Good point about the double referendums.
It was a joke that they’d keep asking until we got the right answer, but to be fair, on two occasions I can recall, our concerns were highlighted and addressed and another vote was put forward.

See above.

Well of course we had the Rees Mogg suggestion of a first referendum between leave and remain, then a second referendum when we saw what deal we'd get.

But that was before he won the first referendum.

 

[blueinsa]

@mancity2012_eamo im smashed in work here pal so will address the rest of your excellent post as and when I can.

 

[RabidCity]

Yeah - thats not naming 3 laws is it? Not that I am surprised by that - slogans can seldom be backed up with facts

I've named an example already, the one preventing zero VAT on women's sanitary products. Could not be changed without EU agreement, now established as of Jan 2021.

Yes we agreed to it initially, but when the public opinion rightly shifted on this, we were powerless to enact the change ourselves.

Whatever side you're on... this is a benefit to setting own laws and regulations.

 

[bluethrunthru]

I've named an example already, the one preventing zero VAT on women's sanitary products. Could not be changed without EU agreement, now established as of Jan 2021.

Yes we agreed to it initially, but when the public opinion rightly shifted on this, we were powerless to enact the change ourselves.

Whatever side you're on... this is a benefit to setting own laws and regulations.

So thats it? Thats the one and only? BTW just asked wife and daughter - wife works at Sainsburys - they say regardless of what was said there has been no noticeable reduction on sanitary products.

 

[west didsblue]

Great post.

I would vote for the party that would rejoin at the first opportunity and I would accept all conditions of rejoining.

Better in than out and leaving was a huge mistake.

Sadly, it seems no politicians are interested in rejoining.

If Labour were to put that on their manifesto for the next election the whole election would be about Brexit again and would be totally divisive. Not only that, there’s little chance the EU would have us back any time soon without some significant evidence of changes in our attitude to them making it a pointless manifesto aspiration. The best we can hope for in the short term is a government that stops the damaging divergence and rejoins a few EU programmes as associate members in good faith leading to the potential to rejoin in one or two parliaments’ time with maybe entry into the EEA a few years ahead of that. I would guess it will be a minimum of 10-15 years to get back in as full members of the EU.

If however we get another government like the current one who just lie about the downside and talk up the minuscule benefits of joining the CPTPP and 0.001% benefits of random trade deals with countries on the other side of the world we’re fucked.