How do we resolve the Brexit mess?

jim tolmies perm said:
And are Africa, Asia and the Americas investing that growth in better provision of social and health care or more in propping up and aligning themselves with military juntas and other such despotic and authoritarian regimes.
It's the UKs decoupling from the E.U that has it firmly entrenched as the sick man of Europe. We won't join a single market worth trillions on our doorstep but we'll sign up to Asian blocks and Australia with a net GDP contribution of less than 0.5%
Fucking abominably insane
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Very well said.
 
Vic said:
Total bollocks when most people in 2019 voted for parties that would have stopped Brexit.
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gordondaviesmoustache said:
Are you serious? 60% didn’t vote for the cunts. On what fucking planet is that democracy in action?
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All roads lead to electoral reform, but Cameron got that kicked into the long grass by sending every household a scary leaflet saying PR would result in permanently hung parliament's and paralysis of government - so we should vote for no reform
A few years later he tried the same trick to see off ukip and the Eurosceptics in his own party and as we know it didn't work.
For all the obvious damage of the brexit referendum I actually think that first one on electoral reform was quietly the biggest disaster - the brexit referendum wouldn't have happened without it.
 
Mazzarelli's Swiss Cheese said:
All roads lead to electoral reform, but Cameron got that kicked into the long grass by sending every household a scary leaflet saying PR would result in permanently hung parliament's and paralysis of government - so we should vote for no reform
A few years later he tried the same trick to see off ukip and the Eurosceptics in his own party and as we know it didn't work.
For all the obvious damage of the brexit referendum I actually think that first one on electoral reform was quietly the biggest disaster - the brexit referendum wouldn't have happened without it.
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The fact that Johnson repeatedly boasted about his ‘overwhelming mandate’ when a far higher percentage of people voted for other parties in the 2019 GE than voted for Brexit shows what a dishonest, dysfunctional and squalid electoral system we have.

On what fucking planet is 40% of the vote an overwhelming mandate?

The cards to the deck are fixed - and most voters have no influence whatsoever over the outcome of a GE.
 
GortonBlue62 said:
The daily workings of the House of Commons are freely available for all to see, not in a quarterly report of the one party state that is the EU Commission.
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The UK cabinet's workings aren't though, more comparably. They don't even do a quarterly report. If you want a comparison for the HOC then it's the EU parliament. The commission is comparable to cabinet.
 
British 'democracy' is not democracy.

At the next election, another minority will put in a Labour government, probably with a large majority. If the majority is much above 50, Starmer will claim a huge mandate to do what he likes, despite the fact that most people voted against it.

At a typical GE, the decision is made by a relatively small number of floating voters in marginal seats. And it doesn't matter whether the winner of a constituency wins by 1 vote or 40,000, the MP will always claim a personal mandate. Even when more people voted against him/her than for.

Most of us might as well be living in the UAE for all the practical impact we have on politics, or on policies.
 
Not much democracy for the people of NI either, fucking disgusting what's being allowed happen. The whole province being held back by the DUP with the backing of the tories and it suits the cunts because it's another brake on NI prospering which shines another spotlight on the failings of brexit. They really suit each other, duplicitous geebags.
I fucking hate your tory government in power now more than probably any other in my lifetime and there has been some real beauties for my country to suffer the consequences of.
Democracy my big hairy deformed left bollocking.
BrianW said:
British 'democracy' is not democracy.

At the next election, another minority will put in a Labour government, probably with a large majority. If the majority is much above 50, Starmer will claim a huge mandate to do what he likes, despite the fact that most people voted against it.

At a typical GE, the decision is made by a relatively small number of floating voters in marginal seats. And it doesn't matter whether the winner of a constituency wins by 1 vote or 40,000, the MP will always claim a personal mandate. Even when more people voted against him/her than for.

Most of us might as well be living in the UAE for all the practical impact we have on politics, or on policies.
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Shadz69 said:
Not much democracy for the people of NI either, fucking disgusting what's being allowed happen. The whole province being held back by the DUP with the backing of the tories and it suits the cunts because it's another brake on NI prospering which shines another spotlight on the failings of brexit. They really suit each other, duplicitous geebags.
I fucking hate your tory government in power now more than probably any other in my lifetime and there has been some real beauties for my country to suffer the consequences of.
Democracy my big hairy deformed left bollocking.
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I believe this is why so many are turning to direct action, protesting in the street and all the rest of it.
 
Shadz69 said:
Not much democracy for the people of NI either, fucking disgusting what's being allowed happen. The whole province being held back by the DUP with the backing of the tories and it suits the cunts because it's another brake on NI prospering which shines another spotlight on the failings of brexit. They really suit each other, duplicitous geebags.
I fucking hate your tory government in power now more than probably any other in my lifetime and there has been some real beauties for my country to suffer the consequences of.
Democracy my big hairy deformed left bollocking.
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Nor for Scotland who voted overwhelmingly in favour of staying in the EU but still had to leave
 
GortonBlue62 said:
Are you seriously suggesting that Labour shortages in Europe and elsewhere are anything to do with Brexit?

I'm out. It's like trying to explain to a rag or a dipper that City have not broken FFP to any significant extent.
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Sorry to see you post that...............

Your posts over the last couple of days have offered more sense that the last 7 years of an echo chamber limited to a group seeking to provide reassurance to each other.

Still - as I mentioned to a poster the other day:

"............I wish you well with your objectivity - although I strongly doubt your views will be tolerated and I expect that you will soon find a 'gang' of posters coming on to ridicule what you post - rather than debate it."

They cannot debate - you must join the group and comply

Shame - but cannot blame you - most people have better things to do with their time.

Though..........

FWIW - if you had been on the thread longer you would have realised that the cheesemonger's post should not have been been taken other than with a sense of admiration.

He artfully holds up a mirror to the nonsense that the pack spout - really quite a sharp individual IMO

Anyway - come on CITY smash the fucking Tarquins tomorrow - now there is a view that will secure consensus
 
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Oldham Exile said:
Sorry to see you post that...............

Your posts over the last couple of days have offered more sense that the last 7 years of an echo chamber limited to a group seeking to provide reassurance to each other.

Still - as I mentioned to a poster the other day:

"............I wish you well with your objectivity - although I strongly doubt your views will be tolerated and I expect that you will soon find a 'gang' of posters coming on to ridicule what you post - rather than debate it."

They cannot debate - you must join the group and comply

Shame - but cannot blame you - most people have better things to do with their time.

Though..........

FWIW - if you had been on the thread longer you would have realised that the cheesemonger's post should not have been been taken other than with a sense of admiration.

He artfully holds up a mirror to the nonsense that the pack spout - really quite a sharp individual IMO

Anyway - come on CITY smash the fucking Tarquins tomorrow - now there is a view that will secure consensus
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Now that events have proven you totally and utterly wrong in everything that you posted in your previous guise, are you now prepared to admit that it’s all a bit of a mess or are you going to carry on bloviating about packs and echo chambers. The only reason it’s turned into a bit of an echo chamber is that no one can put together a coherent argument that we are seeing any benefits at all in trade, governance, sovereignty, the economy, border control, personal finances, individual freedoms or anything else as a result of Brexit. Maybe you could try doing that yourself?

By the way did you manage to get your Cyprus residency sorted out?
 
Oldham Exile said:
Sorry to see you post that...............

Your posts over the last couple of days have offered more sense that the last 7 years of an echo chamber limited to a group seeking to provide reassurance to each other.

Still - as I mentioned to a poster the other day:

"............I wish you well with your objectivity - although I strongly doubt your views will be tolerated and I expect that you will soon find a 'gang' of posters coming on to ridicule what you post - rather than debate it."

They cannot debate - you must join the group and comply

Shame - but cannot blame you - most people have better things to do with their time.

Though..........

FWIW - if you had been on the thread longer you would have realised that the cheesemonger's post should not have been been taken other than with a sense of admiration.

He artfully holds up a mirror to the nonsense that the pack spout - really quite a sharp individual IMO

Anyway - come on CITY smash the fucking Tarquins tomorrow - now there is a view that will secure consensus
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Why are you doing a Donald instead of actually debating the issues?

All I’ve seen you do is complain that you’re not able to discuss but don’t actually ever have anything to talk about.
 
Oldham Exile said:
Sorry to see you post that...............

Your posts over the last couple of days have offered more sense that the last 7 years of an echo chamber limited to a group seeking to provide reassurance to each other.

Still - as I mentioned to a poster the other day:

"............I wish you well with your objectivity - although I strongly doubt your views will be tolerated and I expect that you will soon find a 'gang' of posters coming on to ridicule what you post - rather than debate it."

They cannot debate - you must join the group and comply

Shame - but cannot blame you - most people have better things to do with their time.

Though..........

FWIW - if you had been on the thread longer you would have realised that the cheesemonger's post should not have been been taken other than with a sense of admiration.

He artfully holds up a mirror to the nonsense that the pack spout - really quite a sharp individual IMO

Anyway - come on CITY smash the fucking Tarquins tomorrow - now there is a view that will secure consensus
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More nonsense from the Bloviator.

Why "debate" rather than just refute silly talk about democracy?
 
The Future’s Blue! said:
Why are you doing a Donald instead of actually debating the issues?

All I’ve seen you do is complain that you’re not able to discuss but don’t actually ever have anything to talk about.
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They've completely lost the rational argument hence their irrational inane and pretentious ramblings. Did they use to speak like that when they wanted the votes of the "Hoi polloi" ? No, of course not because all they wanted to hear was bilious straight talking wasn't it?
These people will never even admit that they "might have been" wrong not even in the face of such overwhelming evidence. Even the "take back control" mantra ( laughable for so many reasons it's as if we never had general elections, decided our own tax , health and defence policy etc ..) has been seen as a total sham.
Convergence was nothing more than good simple economic common sense in a market so big and diverse.
No pile on from me here guys and gals, just facts backed up by irrefutable data is the key to decent honest debate
 
Mazzarelli's Swiss Cheese said:
I suppose the argument/debate left the building in June 2016, so no point really.
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Only if the discussion was about leaving or remaining which it isn’t.

I thought this thread was about discussing how to make it work and reverse the negative effects that the government has so skilfully negotiated into the Brexit withdrawal agreement and trade deal, as well as all the self imposed red tape making international trade so difficult for many.
 
west didsblue said:
Only if the discussion was about leaving or remaining which it isn’t.

I thought this thread was about discussing how to make it work and reverse the negative effects that the government has so skilfully negotiated into the Brexit withdrawal agreement and trade deal, as well as all the self imposed red tape making international trade so difficult for many.
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That would be a lot easier if the opposition to such sensible changes would just wither on the vine of reality.
 
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