How do we resolve the Brexit mess?

can't fix anything until the likes of Hoey just die off



"Science progresses one funeral at a time" - Max Plank on refusal of physicists to accept quantum mechanics.

Brexit is similar, and the recent interactions on this thread follow suit, a simple refusal to engage with reality, even 8 years on from the vote.

So to answer the thread title, we can't even start to sort out the mess until we can move on from an ideological cult to a fact based conversation.

We're only just starting baby steps in the political sphere, though most normal people now accept it was a mistake and we should start to row back on the sillyness of the likes of Hoey at least.

And remember the vote was overwhelmingly driven by the old, so the grim reaper is selectively removing Brexit supporters.
 
Before the Brexit vote we had record car production (1.6m) with expectations of improving further. It's now half that. It would be even less if Nissan hadn't had a billion pounds of government funding for Sunderland.
I’m not convinced that’s all related to brexit though. The German car industry is also slowing down and they’re in the eu. Going forward car production is being moved out of Europe.
 
So what has happened in Europe? Why are European lines flatter than ours or even going down as with Germany? Arguably by this logic they're suffering more from Brexit than we are! Are you saying that had we stayed in the EU then today we'd be doing FAR better than any other EU country? On what basis? I'd be surprised if it made any difference at all.
If you actually look at Germany, France or other eu countries, there in decline and even though it’s small we are growing more in a number of areas.

With the Eu at the minute I’m not seeing a land of growth or opportunity. It’s economic decline and populists taking over.
 
You think that making our factories less efficient will give more people livelihoods??
Of course not but ultimately this is where the complexities of the Brexit vote begin. It wasn't that people were just too stupid, they rejected something that wasn't working for them but unfortunately had already overtaken them.

Many folk on here however reconcile that by basically saying tough. We need factories to be more efficient because there's money to be made, suck it up. My father in law was one of them, before the referendum he was made redundant because his work was moved to eastern Europe where labour was cheaper, which way do you think he voted? His mind was made up on Brexit long before the decision was made to even hold a referendum.

There is one correlation between the vote and it predominately surrounds the poorer voting North. Those poor people weren't too stupid, they were just poor, they were poor in the EU and unfortunately they'll still be poor out of it. They gained virtually nothing from the type of economic and regulatory globalism that is funnelled via the EU. Obviously leaving wasn't the way to fix that but they took the one opportunity they had.

I think we're just in a major transition between old and new, the 'goods' economy is shrinking so I just don't see the huge worry about it. We still trade with the likes of the US more than any other country and we're not in a political union with the US so it isn't like all trade just ends. None of what people really need today hinges completely upon being in the EU.

Sorting our public services just for example should be priority number one. If the government focuses instead on going back into the EU and as a result the economy grows by a measly amount extra then so what, what has changed? The Tories spent 6-7 years fussing about Brexit and we were still in the EU, and yet meanwhile the house was burning down.
 
Of course not but ultimately this is where the complexities of the Brexit vote begin. It wasn't that people were just too stupid, they rejected something that wasn't working for them but unfortunately had already overtaken them.

Many folk on here however reconcile that by basically saying tough. We need factories to be more efficient because there's money to be made, suck it up. My father in law was one of them, before the referendum he was made redundant because his work was moved to eastern Europe where labour was cheaper, which way do you think he voted? His mind was made up on Brexit long before the decision was made to even hold a referendum.

There is one correlation between the vote and it predominately surrounds the poorer voting North. Those poor people weren't too stupid, they were just poor, they were poor in the EU and unfortunately they'll still be poor out of it. They gained virtually nothing from the type of economic and regulatory globalism that is funnelled via the EU. Obviously leaving wasn't the way to fix that but they took the one opportunity they had.

I think we're just in a major transition between old and new, the 'goods' economy is shrinking so I just don't see the huge worry about it. We still trade with the likes of the US more than any other country and we're not in a political union with the US so it isn't like all trade just ends. None of what people really need today hinges completely upon being in the EU.

Sorting our public services just for example should be priority number one. If the government focuses instead on going back into the EU and as a result the economy grows by a measly amount extra then so what, what has changed? The Tories spent 6-7 years fussing about Brexit and we were still in the EU, and yet meanwhile the house was burning down.
Perhaps you need to look at all the EU funding that went to deprived areas, based on deprivation. Virtually all gone now, replaced by Tory beauty bids for funds, going to the rich areas that can afford the time and skill to fill in the bid forms.
 
There is one correlation between the vote and it predominately surrounds the poorer voting North. Those poor people weren't too stupid, they were just poor, they were poor in the EU and unfortunately they'll still be poor out of it. They gained virtually nothing from the type of economic and regulatory globalism that is funnelled via the EU. Obviously leaving wasn't the way to fix that but they took the one opportunity they had.

It's interesting that Scotland (38% leave) took a radically different position to, say the North West (54% leave). It's not really about poverty, it's about the narrative.



Sorting our public services just for example should be priority number one. If the government focuses instead on going back into the EU and as a result the economy grows by a measly amount extra then so what, what has changed?


I agree about public services. The impact on them due to the overall hit on public finances was not measly. As (and I'm sorry to remain so tedious here) every single economic analysis shows. I'm not personally arguing to rejoin the EU right now though, as you imply. Merely that we should be clear eyed about the impacts.
 
Perhaps you need to look at all the EU funding that went to deprived areas, based on deprivation. Virtually all gone now, replaced by Tory beauty bids for funds, going to the rich areas that can afford the time and skill to fill in the bid forms.
Given we were a net contributor to the tune of £10bn then wasn't that just our own money being given back to us minus a fee?

Imagine you ran a country and you had to pay money into a scheme to help deprived areas in Europe. However, after paying your money you then need to bid to get funding for the deprived areas in your own country.

Wouldn't it be more efficient to you know.. do it ourselves? Or do politicians in Brussels know more about impoverished areas in the North East?
 
It's a strange fact, but many of the poorest parts of Western Europe are in - er - the UK. The EU might have provided funding for development. The London/South East biased UK government has no real interest in doing so.

Maybe the way forward is for everything north and west of (say) Birmingham to secede, form a new country, and rejoin the EU. We'd be very poor, but at least we'd have hope.

The way things are going we shall end up as the new Tenessee complete with private healthcare and gun culture. How anyone thinks that would be better for the poor eludes me.
 
It's a strange fact, but many of the poorest parts of Western Europe are in - er - the UK. The EU might have provided funding for development. The London/South East biased UK government has no real interest in doing so.

Maybe the way forward is for everything north and west of (say) Birmingham to secede, form a new country, and rejoin the EU. We'd be very poor, but at least we'd have hope.

The way things are going we shall end up as the new Tenessee complete with private healthcare and gun culture. How anyone thinks that would be better for the poor eludes me.
Aha.
You all scoffed when I suggested it first but now it sounds like you want to join us FUCKers.
That’s Federal Union of Celtic Kingdoms to you.

Look back through the thread if you’re interested.
 
Aha.
You all scoffed when I suggested it first but now it sounds like you want to join us FUCKers.
That’s Federal Union of Celtic Kingdoms to you.

Look back through the thread if you’re interested.

You can have Wales as well if you want.

We'll pay you to take them away.
 
If you actually look at Germany, France or other eu countries, there in decline and even though it’s small we are growing more in a number of areas.

With the Eu at the minute I’m not seeing a land of growth or opportunity. It’s economic decline and populists taking over.
The only difference is your public sector. You are investing much more into infrastructure. That's where the more growth comes from. Has nothing to do with the trade.
 
Been a while since I started this thread. Every fear I had, has been realised and then some. We really need to have a grown up discussion, about the future. Are we going to allow ourselves to sink deeper into the economic disaster we find ourselves, that will invariably get worse?

In a democracy you are allowed to change your mind when you realise you need to get the vote out to swamp our EDL types, right wing Tories, economics morons and cunts.

Funny how it’s never given the recognition it deserves in fucking us up, on the news.
 
Been a while since I started this thread. Every fear I had, has been realised and then some. We really need to have a grown up discussion, about the future. Are we going to allow ourselves to sink deeper into the economic disaster we find ourselves, that will invariably get worse?

In a democracy you are allowed to change your mind when you realise you need to get the vote out to swamp our EDL types, right wing Tories, economics morons and cunts.

Funny how it’s never given the recognition it deserves in fucking us up, on the news.
1st referendum 1975
2nd referendum 2016

In between broken promises ie lies. Its not a path I would suggest you tread.

You may not remember but we both agreed that Scotland bottled its own independence referendum. I'm not so sure as a proud Scot you should be relying on the house of commons to Help you get the future you want, that seems the opposite of what you claim is in your best interests.
 
1st referendum 1975
2nd referendum 2016

In between broken promises ie lies. Its not a path I would suggest you tread.

You may not remember but we both agreed that Scotland bottled its own independence referendum. I'm not so sure as a proud Scot you should be relying on the house of commons to Help you get the future you want, that seems the opposite of what you claim is in your best interests.
We got the future England wanted. They need to fix it. We voted 62% to remain. We are in this shit through the folly of our neighbours. That’s why we wanted a move.
 

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