How much will J.Navas improve the team over J.Milner?

[dctid]

They both have merits and both a key members of the team

Recent performances by both should have proven that to one and all

 

[Braggster]

I hate to say it, but come May 2014, we'll all be quite sick of Navas.

Nope... 11 assists and 4 goals later, still not sick of him.

Hehe!

It's one thing to have an opinion, and I'm normally against dredging up past posts on that basis, but given the strident certainty with which Joburg Hero stated his case I think an exception is merited in this instance...

 

[Tarzan41]

I hate to say it, but come May 2014, we'll all be quite sick of Navas. He's hugely frustrating, and while he will provide the width that many City fans have craved for years, he's not a good enough, or intelligent enough player to provide a genuinely top class option out wide. He's so quick, but it's one thing being quick, and one thing knowing how to use it. He beats a man on the outside and delivers a cross a few times per game, but the number of times he'll brainlessly run himself into dead ends is heartbreaking. His delivery is ok, nothing to shout about, but I do expect him to pick up a fair few assists by virtue of his pace and fairly good delivery alone.

As we're all aware, we play a very distinct, compact game, focused on central areas. In turn, teams pack the central areas and leave space out wide. The belief amongst City fans is that Navas is going to hug the touchline while everyone else is central and we're suddenly going to have much more space in the middle because someone will have to mark Navas. Wrong. Full backs will leave him out there, there's no reason to mark him, by the time a ball is sprayed out wide to him the full back will have had time to split from the CBs, the CBs will have shuffled across, and the danger will be averted. There's a reason why in our system players don't hug the touchline, it's because it's ineffective to do so.

What was noticeable against Arsenal was that we were determined to get the ball wide, keep the ball wide and put more crosses into the box. Whether this was a Pellegrini tactic, or whether this was a product of having two static strikers in the box and fewer options centrally is yet to be seen; I'll never know what Pellegrini instructed the boys to do, but should this pattern of play continue throughout the season it'll be evident that it's a tactical ploy. In this instance, Navas' value to the side will be increased. However, once Aguero returns - and Jovetic is integrated into the side - I expect play to be focused through the central areas again.

What Milner brings to the side? Well he's more intelligent for starters, he'll use the ball much more effectively and will play the percentages game. Years ago Milner was the type who'd run aimlessly down the wing into cul-de-sacs, a la Navas, but he's taken a lot of that out of his game and developed well as a footballer. Milner is also better technically and will score more goals. I'd be quite happy to see Milner play on the right ahead of Navas at times this season, but Navas deserves the chance to prove himself. Milner proved himself last season, he was one of our best performers, imo the pressure's all on Navas. As I've said before, and a few have also highlighted here, Navas will provide us with much quicker counter attacks and transitions, which will be essential in the big European games.

Jesus Christ I'm good. Who's ready to admit I was right all along? Milner>>>>Navas and always has been.

Not that good it seems.

 

[adrianr]

I hate to say it, but come May 2014, we'll all be quite sick of Navas.

Nope... 11 assists and 4 goals later, still not sick of him.

In his defence, he did say May.

 

[cucumberman]

Milner is more consistent than Navas as in a few matches Navas did disappear somewhat.

But Navas's runs and crosses are more consistent than Milner's.

But when Milner does land an inch perfect cross, it is better than Navas.

But Navas knows how to pull th ball back,.but bodycheck wise Milner has more presence.

But in spite of not covering as much ground, Navas when he runs he splits the sea in two.

So my conclusion is a player with both Milner and Navas's +ve attributes would be the perfect winger.<br /><br />-- Fri Jan 17, 2014 5:47 am --<br /><br />Milner is more consistent than Navas as in a few matches Navas did disappear somewhat.

But Navas's runs and crosses are more consistent than Milner's.

But when Milner does land an inch perfect cross, it is better than Navas.

But Navas knows how to pull th ball back,.but bodycheck wise Milner has more presence.

But in spite of not covering as much ground, Navas when he runs he splits the sea in two.

So my conclusion is a player with both Milner and Navas's +ve attributes would be the perfect winger.

 

[baildon blue]

They both have merits and both a key members of the team

Recent performances by both should have proven that to one and all

Spot on . Both players have been very good this season .

 

[Tim of the Oak]

I hate to say it, but come May 2014, we'll all be quite sick of Navas. He's hugely frustrating, and while he will provide the width that many City fans have craved for years, he's not a good enough, or intelligent enough player to provide a genuinely top class option out wide. He's so quick, but it's one thing being quick, and one thing knowing how to use it. He beats a man on the outside and delivers a cross a few times per game, but the number of times he'll brainlessly run himself into dead ends is heartbreaking. His delivery is ok, nothing to shout about, but I do expect him to pick up a fair few assists by virtue of his pace and fairly good delivery alone.

As we're all aware, we play a very distinct, compact game, focused on central areas. In turn, teams pack the central areas and leave space out wide. The belief amongst City fans is that Navas is going to hug the touchline while everyone else is central and we're suddenly going to have much more space in the middle because someone will have to mark Navas. Wrong. Full backs will leave him out there, there's no reason to mark him, by the time a ball is sprayed out wide to him the full back will have had time to split from the CBs, the CBs will have shuffled across, and the danger will be averted. There's a reason why in our system players don't hug the touchline, it's because it's ineffective to do so.

What was noticeable against Arsenal was that we were determined to get the ball wide, keep the ball wide and put more crosses into the box. Whether this was a Pellegrini tactic, or whether this was a product of having two static strikers in the box and fewer options centrally is yet to be seen; I'll never know what Pellegrini instructed the boys to do, but should this pattern of play continue throughout the season it'll be evident that it's a tactical ploy. In this instance, Navas' value to the side will be increased. However, once Aguero returns - and Jovetic is integrated into the side - I expect play to be focused through the central areas again.

What Milner brings to the side? Well he's more intelligent for starters, he'll use the ball much more effectively and will play the percentages game. Years ago Milner was the type who'd run aimlessly down the wing into cul-de-sacs, a la Navas, but he's taken a lot of that out of his game and developed well as a footballer. Milner is also better technically and will score more goals. I'd be quite happy to see Milner play on the right ahead of Navas at times this season, but Navas deserves the chance to prove himself. Milner proved himself last season, he was one of our best performers, imo the pressure's all on Navas. As I've said before, and a few have also highlighted here, Navas will provide us with much quicker counter attacks and transitions, which will be essential in the big European games.

Jesus Christ I'm good. Who's ready to admit I was right all along? Milner>>>>Navas and always has been.

Not that good it seems.

Joburg. Have you and David Moyes ever been pictures together?

 

[Puppet Master Silva]

Have I missed something here? Navas has been fantastic all season.

 

[MC ID]

I dislike these threads, they always sound like in liking one player I must think the other is shit and must be replaced.

I like them both.

I think both are brilliant.

Thank god we can have them both.

 

[Saif1994]

I dislike these threads, they always sound like in liking one player I must think the other is shit and must be replaced.

I like them both.

I think both are brilliant.

Thank god we can have them both.

No I think that the arrival of Jesus Navas has only benefitted Milner as it has lead to him playing in a different position that allowed him to perform better. Thread discussed how much he would improve the team and the answer, as we know now, is considerably.

 

[Blue Elvis]

They both have merits and both a key members of the team

Recent performances by both should have proven that to one and all

Spot on . Both players have been very good this season .

I'm chuffed we have got both because they have different things to offer to the team. Was particularly impressed with Jimmy on Wednesday night.
CTID

 

[silvasleftleg]

Navas is an unsung hero. He has 11 assists so far. More than anyone else in our squad. He's only been here for a few months, now that he's settled, we should see more of him.

James should be playing in midfield in my opinion, he isn't consistent enough as a winger, but I reckon he can do a better job than Garcia in midfield, so let's sell Garcia and get Milner in midfield, we can then buy another winger, one that can give Navas much needed competition.

 

[ElanJo]

Both are having very good seasons

After a slightly slow start, Navas has been a constant attacking threat and Milner has had a couple of exceptional games to go a long with his generally high performance level.

 

[carlos tevez is a blue]

Hi,

There is no doubting the individual qualities of James Milner and Jesus Navas, but which player will make Manchester City function better as a team?

James Milner's strengths lie in his defensive contribution and keeping possession (a little bit like what Nasri does on the opposite flank). I'm very tempted to say he is a good crosser, but this is far from true. He makes far too many inaccurate crosses every game compared to good crosses. He was an important part of the squad last year when we didn't perform great.

From this, and thinking about it logically, we can almost conclude that by having two non-incisive 'blunt' wide players like Nasri and MIlner, its very hard to score through our strikers. Our track record over the last season wasn't as good as when we had Adam Johnson and Micah Richards available to play half the games on the right side during our 2011/2012 title winning season.

So, now Navas has come along, it seems that he will drastically improve the team offensively. This comes at a small cost defensively - he does track back occasionally and pressures well, but he very rarely can put in a tackle because he isn't physically suitable for the task. However, he can deliver crosses more accurately, which means more chances for our strikers to score goals and headers (depending on whether they are low or high). Again, this is a major boost for us, as Aguero used to score quite a few goals 2 seasons ago when Micah hit crosses low and hard to the far post. He also has more of an ability to beat a man. Milner can do this as well, but he often requires a couple of one-twos with someone like Zaba or Silva before being put up behind the defense to deliver a cross. Whereas Navas is fast enough to beat most full backs on his own.

With our extra focus on possession, it can be more useful for us (especially when against top opposition in the Champions League) to keep our right back in a deeper position and allow Navas to control the right flank. To support this it is worth noting is that opposition teams tend to allow Milner a lot of space knowing that he can't do much damage without a supporting player to carve an opening. As a result Milner does not in fact help to stretch the defending team and their defense line as much as Navas can (who actually plays much closer to the touch line) making it difficult to pass through the middle as well.

Lastly, we can hit on the counter attack better with Navas. While this is not his (and our current team's) usual style of play, against Bayern in the Allianz Arena, you could see signs that Navas can run very fast and create chances on the counter attack with Negredo playing up front. Milner is no slouch, but Navas is physically lighter and can accelerate and reach quicker sprinting speeds with the ball at his feet. Even subtle differences in pace can often make a difference in losing the ball and actually getting past an opposition defender.

Overall, Navas brings a lot more options to the table offensively, however we lose that defensive stability that Milner possesses when he tirelessly runs and helps out the defense. Nonetheless, there is less of a need for our full backs to push far forward with Navas able to assume greater offensive responsibility and our defenders will be less likely to be caught out on the counter attack ourselves. Anything could happen this season, but I expect that Navas will be a large improvement for the team playing key passes and helping the team attack better. I predict he will be very successful in his first season and in my opinion is among the smartest signings we've made for a while.

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WCUjqHPw0O0[/youtube]

^This video belongs to BluemoonHD03 ·

Based on todays performance the question should be "How much did J.Milner improve the team compared to J.Navas?


Navas was woeful. Milner was full of beans and changed the match.

 

[Joburg Hero]

My favourite topic. It was only a matter of time before people came to terms with how poor Navas is.

 

[CitizenTID]

My favourite topic. It was only a matter of time before people came to terms with how poor Navas is.

He did a great job the first half of the season but has stalled, just like Negredo and Ozil - funny that, what with them all coming from the same league with the same winter break

 

[sam-caddick]

My favourite topic. It was only a matter of time before people came to terms with how poor Navas is.

Doesn't Navas have our most assists in all competitions this season?

He might not be a starter but he is an excellent squad player.

James Milner is the same in my opinion, looks a world beater when coming on as a sub but whenever he starts he rarely produces and only has one or two top form games in a season when he starts.

This is Navas' first season in a new league, next season watch him shine in my opinion.

 

[Sky Blue]

My favourite topic. It was only a matter of time before people came to terms with how poor Navas is.

LOL on the 'Silva or Ozil' thread...

Oezil all day I'm afraid. Silva is brilliant, but Oezil is the level above. Not a huge distance between the two but it's clear that Oezil is the better player.

 

[Joburg Hero]

Navas is simply a rubbish footballer. The most predictable player in the league, nothing but a detriment to our game plan.

 

[Sky Blue]

Navas is simply a rubbish footballer. The most predictable player in the league, nothing but a detriment to our game plan.

Stop talking shite. We certainly missed him on Wednesday when Milner was doing his imitation of a pub player.