Howard Webb to Ref Newcastle Game

[nijinsky's fetlocks]

I see mad people...

 

[Pigeonho]

[Pigeonho, you seem like a man who can discuss an issue intelligently without resorting to name calling. I'm interested in your views.

Is it your view that there are some biased refs but Webb is not one of them?

Is it your view that there are some biased refs but there is no anti-City bias?

Is it your view that there are some biased refs but none in the Premier League?

Is it your view that there are no biased refs in professional football in England at all?

More importantly, I'm interested in your reasons for holding whichever view you do. There's got to be more to it than a blind faith in the universal goodness of man, and I'm interested to know what it is.

I knew someone would see it, eventually! ;-)

I think there are refs who may favour the home team, whoever that team maybe. That is as far as any kind of conspiracy theory I can stretch to though. That counts for any ref, not jut Webb.

I don't think there is ANY anti-City bias whatsoever, quite simply because, well, why would there be? Why us all of a sudden? What have we done? I think we get the same for/against decisions ALL teams get, but some have started to notice the against ones more now because our seasons have meaning, whereas before it was either relegation or mid-table obscurity at best. My United mates insist the entire galaxy is out to get them, whereas those on here believe everyone is for United. Strange that, some may say, whereas I just say it is the views of 2 opposing sets of fans.

I only focus on the premier league, so I can only go on that really. Other countries have exposed cheating refs who do it purely for financial gain. I don't think that is the case over here, there's too much media exposure on the PL for anything on that scale to be gotten away with by any individual. (In my humble opinion).

There could very well be biased refs in England, though i've never seen anything which jumps out at me and says, for example in the Championship, 'that refs a Leicester fan, he shouldn't be officiating their game'.

It may all just be me and my hope that refs are fair and just make simple mistakes at times. I tend to see things for what they are, and what they are are human beings under intense pressure seeing things from pitch level amongst whatever is going on at that time. I think it may have been Webb in fact who said that there are some decisions which are made based on what a ref has HEARD and not seen, i.e. the distinct sound of a boot hitting another boot but hasn't actually been seen because of the speed any such incident has happened. We see everything from a birds eye view, in slow motion HD and repeated time and time again. Referees see things as quickly as they happen, and the potential for error, be it positive or negative for any team, is there.

I don't know enough about you to know your match going habits, but assume from your user name that you have been going regularly for at least the last few seasons?

In particular, have you seen any City game refereed by Peter walton?

I haven't been going for a few seasons now, financially it isn't possible.
What is Walton like to see officiate in the flesh?

 

[bernabias home shirt]

I knew someone would see it, eventually! ;-)

I think there are refs who may favour the home team, whoever that team maybe. That is as far as any kind of conspiracy theory I can stretch to though. That counts for any ref, not jut Webb.

I don't think there is ANY anti-City bias whatsoever, quite simply because, well, why would there be? Why us all of a sudden? What have we done? I think we get the same for/against decisions ALL teams get, but some have started to notice the against ones more now because our seasons have meaning, whereas before it was either relegation or mid-table obscurity at best. My United mates insist the entire galaxy is out to get them, whereas those on here believe everyone is for United. Strange that, some may say, whereas I just say it is the views of 2 opposing sets of fans.

I only focus on the premier league, so I can only go on that really. Other countries have exposed cheating refs who do it purely for financial gain. I don't think that is the case over here, there's too much media exposure on the PL for anything on that scale to be gotten away with by any individual. (In my humble opinion).

There could very well be biased refs in England, though i've never seen anything which jumps out at me and says, for example in the Championship, 'that refs a Leicester fan, he shouldn't be officiating their game'.

It may all just be me and my hope that refs are fair and just make simple mistakes at times. I tend to see things for what they are, and what they are are human beings under intense pressure seeing things from pitch level amongst whatever is going on at that time. I think it may have been Webb in fact who said that there are some decisions which are made based on what a ref has HEARD and not seen, i.e. the distinct sound of a boot hitting another boot but hasn't actually been seen because of the speed any such incident has happened. We see everything from a birds eye view, in slow motion HD and repeated time and time again. Referees see things as quickly as they happen, and the potential for error, be it positive or negative for any team, is there.

I don't know enough about you to know your match going habits, but assume from your user name that you have been going regularly for at least the last few seasons?

In particular, have you seen any City game refereed by Peter walton?

I haven't been going for a few seasons now, financially it isn't possible.
What is Walton like to see officiate in the flesh?

He will be saying walton has an everton tattoo..

Just like webb has a city one..

 

[nijinsky's fetlocks]

I don't know enough about you to know your match going habits, but assume from your user name that you have been going regularly for at least the last few seasons?

In particular, have you seen any City game refereed by Peter walton?

I haven't been going for a few seasons now, financially it isn't possible.
What is Walton like to see officiate in the flesh?

He will be saying walton has an everton tattoo..

Just like webb has a city one..

I don't think Walton has ever recovered from his wife being gang raped by the entire Kippax at the last home game against Southampton at Maine Road.
Ever since then,he has had it in for us,for some reason.

 

[mancity5]

Walton was as bent as they fucking come. IMO

 

[Chris in London]

[I haven't been going for a few seasons now, financially it isn't possible.
What is Walton like to see officiate in the flesh?

Sorry to hear that.

The answer is, truly appalling. Dig out any match day thread of a City game refereed by Peter walton and you will read countless examples of the decisions largely going one way.

Also, on telly you can only see so much of the game on the screen at any one time. If you are sitting up in the gods, you can really see the shape of the game. So you can see when City have a 5 on 3 counter attack for instance, and Walton blows for a cynical Everton foul rather than play advantage, you can see that the real advantage has been given to Everton. You get a greater sense of when time is being wasted and the officials do nothing about it. You see - real time, without the advantage of super slo-mo replays - when defenders barge into attackers jumping for headers at one end of the field and nothing is given.

Now, I haven't seen every City game with Walton in charge, but I've seen a good five or six of them, and in each of those games the refereeing has seemed to me to be consistently slanted against us. We all know that refs get things wrong, and most of the time they are honset mistakes. But game after game with this guy in charge everything seemed to be going against us.

Then I read the statistic that of the last 22 games involving us or United that Walton reffed, we didn't win one and they didn't lose one. And I read on here from a poster who lives near him in Northamptonshire that he was a well known local rag before appontment to the PL panel. I don't attach much weight to that myself, but it may be true and it goes alongside the other pieces of evidence.

I readily acknowledge that I might be putting 2 and 2 together and coming up with five, but IMO FWIW the possibility that Peter Walton was biased against us (gone now, thank god) is one that it is foolish to reject out of hand.

There are a large number of referees who I have no problem with at all - Dowd, Probert, Dean, Oliver -who make calls against us which are sometimes bad calls (eg the penalty at Liverpool in the CC 2nd leg) but whose overall track record does not indicate any sort of bias, and whose performances don't, when I'm watching the game, suggest bias to me. There are some who I don't think are biased but are spectacularly incompetent. Attwell is a good example - he was appallingly one sided when he reffed the Wolves game, but I think they were just thoroughly bad calls from someone who was out of his depth (think 'ghost goal').

But there are some who have a track record of decisions which seem to be slanted against us, who (when you see them in the flesh) seem to view every City tackle as a foul and every non City foul as a tackle. I take Walton as an example because he IMO was the worst - there are others such as Mason who has been discussed at length on here.

And if there are some referees who are biased, then it is possible that Webb is amongst them. I don't understand how sensible people can reject that possibility out of hand.

 

[Pigeonho]

[I haven't been going for a few seasons now, financially it isn't possible.
What is Walton like to see officiate in the flesh?

Sorry to hear that.

The answer is, truly appalling. Dig out any match day thread of a City game refereed by Peter walton and you will read countless examples of the decisions largely going one way.

Also, on telly you can only see so much of the game on the screen at any one time. If you are sitting up in the gods, you can really see the shape of the game. So you can see when City have a 5 on 3 counter attack for instance, and Walton blows for a cynical Everton foul rather than play advantage, you can see that the real advantage has been given to Everton. You get a greater sense of when time is being wasted and the officials do nothing about it. You see - real time, without the advantage of super slo-mo replays - when defenders barge into attackers jumping for headers at one end of the field and nothing is given.

Now, I haven't seen every City game with Walton in charge, but I've seen a good five or six of them, and in each of those games the refereeing has seemed to me to be consistently slanted against us. We all know that refs get things wrong, and most of the time they are honset mistakes. But game after game with this guy in charge everything seemed to be going against us.

Then I read the statistic that of the last 22 games involving us or United that Walton reffed, we didn't win one and they didn't lose one. And I read on here from a poster who lives near him in Northamptonshire that he was a well known local rag before appontment to the PL panel. I don't attach much weight to that myself, but it may be true and it goes alongside the other pieces of evidence.

I readily acknowledge that I might be putting 2 and 2 together and coming up with five, but IMO FWIW the possibility that Peter Walton was biased against us (gone now, thank god) is one that it is foolish to reject out of hand.

There are a large number of referees who I have no problem with at all - Dowd, Probert, Dean, Oliver -who make calls against us which are sometimes bad calls (eg the penalty at Liverpool in the CC 2nd leg) but whose overall track record does not indicate any sort of bias, and whose performances don't, when I'm watching the game, suggest bias to me. There are some who I don't think are biased but are spectacularly incompetent. Attwell is a good example - he was appallingly one sided when he reffed the Wolves game, but I think they were just thoroughly bad calls from someone who was out of his depth (think 'ghost goal').

But there are some who have a track record of decisions which seem to be slanted against us, who (when you see them in the flesh) seem to view every City tackle as a foul and every non City foul as a tackle. I take Walton as an example because he IMO was the worst - there are others such as Mason who has been discussed at length on here.

And if there are some referees who are biased, then it is possible that Webb is amongst them. I don't understand how sensible people can reject that possibility out of hand.

I actually enjoyed reading that. usually its a 'he's a fuckin rag ****', with no explanation but that was insightful to say the least. Obviously i'm in no position to argue against what you have seen with your own eyes but what I would ask is this. If you have seen this and come to the conclusion that Walton is clearly bending games to favour one particular team, why haven't his employers or anyone with any clout seen it and done something about it? If it was as obvious as you seem to think it is, (and I respect that is just your theory), surely someone high up in the FA and/or PL would see it and do something to protect their brand? That brand being the PL by the way, not Manchester United.

 

[bobmcfc]

Webb is a good ref. i'm sure if we do everything were supposed to it will be ok

 

[Chris in London]

[I actually enjoyed reading that. usually its a 'he's a fuckin rag ****', with no explanation but that was insightful to say the least. Obviously i'm in no position to argue against what you have seen with your own eyes but what I would ask is this. If you have seen this and come to the conclusion that Walton is clearly bending games to favour one particular team, why haven't his employers or anyone with any clout seen it and done something about it? If it was as obvious as you seem to think it is, (and I respect that is just your theory), surely someone high up in the FA and/or PL would see it and do something to protect their brand? That brand being the PL by the way, not Manchester United.

Three answers to that.

First, it's a possible explanation, not a cast-iron certainty. As I say, it may simply be a case of 2+2=5.

Second, its difficult to prove even if its happening. It goes against the grain to think that refs are biased. We don't want it to be true. And it is easy to justify each individual decision: its only when you look at the wider picture that the pattern emerges

Third, I'm not sure that its right to say that nothing has been done about it. Walton has suddenly decided mid season to go and be a ref in the USA. I don't know if that is a long standing lifestyle choice on his part, or somebody with some clout saying to him 'go to the states and there's no scandal, but you aren't reffing any more PL games'.

It is entirely speculative to say that somebody at the PL has decided to act, but if there was evidence of bias presented to the PL, and they accepted it, it is far more likely that they would move a referee quietly on than make a big noise about it. Who knows what goes on behind the scenes in these places.

 

[Pigeonho]

[I actually enjoyed reading that. usually its a 'he's a fuckin rag ****', with no explanation but that was insightful to say the least. Obviously i'm in no position to argue against what you have seen with your own eyes but what I would ask is this. If you have seen this and come to the conclusion that Walton is clearly bending games to favour one particular team, why haven't his employers or anyone with any clout seen it and done something about it? If it was as obvious as you seem to think it is, (and I respect that is just your theory), surely someone high up in the FA and/or PL would see it and do something to protect their brand? That brand being the PL by the way, not Manchester United.

Three answers to that.

First, it's a possible explanation, not a cast-iron certainty. As I say, it may simply be a case of 2+2=5.

Second, its difficult to prove even if its happening. It goes against the grain to think that refs are biased. We don't want it to be true. And it is easy to justify each individual decision: its only when you look at the wider picture that the pattern emerges

Third, I'm not sure that its right to say that nothing has been done about it. Walton has suddenly decided mid season to go and be a ref in the USA. I don't know if that is a long standing lifestyle choice on his part, or somebody with some clout saying to him 'go to the states and there's no scandal, but you aren't reffing any more PL games'.

It is entirely speculative to say that somebody at the PL has decided to act, but if there was evidence of bias presented to the PL, and they accepted it, it is far more likely that they would move a referee quietly on than make a big noise about it. Who knows what goes on behind the scenes in these places.

All fair points again, nice one.
As I typed the 'would they do anything about it' question i actually thought about how he, (Walton), has gone to the States. Thing is though me being me I simply put that down to personal choice and a chance to make a few quid and live in the States. The MSL is growing and attracting more an more players into its game. Maybe the refs like what is going on and want part of that too? Maybe it could be that Walton has been proven to be biased.
Decent debate from you there though my friend, far more enjoyable and understandable than the usual agenda drivel.