I hate this government

[Len Rum]

Child poverty in the UK soars to over one in four due to "austerity"
Urmston must be proud

Show me a child starving to death in England. This 'poverty' bollocks is just not hitting the spot amongst those who work for a living, if it's supposed to spur us all into revolution. It's time whatever ludicrous yardstick is used for measuring this was adjusted to encompass the real world.

Rock on Ancient, so your definition of child poverty in the 21st century is if the child is 'starving to death'?
That's cool.
I made a tongue in cheek comment earlier about Tory boys not being happy until the workhouse and the poor law were back in force.
I'm beginning to wonder now.

 

[Ancient Citizen]

Child poverty in the UK soars to over one in four due to "austerity"
Urmston must be proud

Show me a child starving to death in England. This 'poverty' bollocks is just not hitting the spot amongst those who work for a living, if it's supposed to spur us all into revolution. It's time whatever ludicrous yardstick is used for measuring this was adjusted to encompass the real world.

The simple facts are that the gap between the have's and the have not's is getting wider at an faster rate than in recent history, and the number's of working poor is also escalating, you are not the only one that works for a living, but just maybe others think that EVERYONE that works should be paid a LIVING wage by their employers, not the very basic topped up by hand outs from the tax payer (which of course rules out many that dine at the top table)

I wouldn't deny that the gap between some peoples earnings, and some on the lower scale is vast. It was ever thus, and ever shall be. What is ridiculous and disingenuous is suggesting that those on the lower scale are living in 'poverty.' In this country that is simply not the case and devalues the word, as plenty that inhabit this planet most certainly are. Nobody I know, and I'm from working class stock, is going short of food or walking around in rags; constantly preaching about poverty merely alienates and infuriates the true working class, those who are actually working, as they can all see and hear what's going on around them.

 

[Len Rum]

Show me a child starving to death in England. This 'poverty' bollocks is just not hitting the spot amongst those who work for a living, if it's supposed to spur us all into revolution. It's time whatever ludicrous yardstick is used for measuring this was adjusted to encompass the real world.

The simple facts are that the gap between the have's and the have not's is getting wider at an faster rate than in recent history, and the number's of working poor is also escalating, you are not the only one that works for a living, but just maybe others think that EVERYONE that works should be paid a LIVING wage by their employers, not the very basic topped up by hand outs from the tax payer (which of course rules out many that dine at the top table)

I wouldn't deny that the gap between some peoples earnings, and some on the lower scale is vast. It was ever thus, and ever shall be. What is ridiculous and disingenuous is suggesting that those on the lower scale are living in 'poverty.' In this country that is simply not the case and devalues the word, as plenty that inhabit this planet most certainly are. Nobody I know, and I'm from working class stock, is going short of food or walking around in rags; constantly preaching about poverty merely alienates and infuriates the true working class, those who are actually working, as they can all see and hear what's going on around them.

Michael Fallon would have been proud of that bit of backtracking!

 

[law74]

Show me a child starving to death in England. This 'poverty' bollocks is just not hitting the spot amongst those who work for a living, if it's supposed to spur us all into revolution. It's time whatever ludicrous yardstick is used for measuring this was adjusted to encompass the real world.

The simple facts are that the gap between the have's and the have not's is getting wider at an faster rate than in recent history, and the number's of working poor is also escalating, you are not the only one that works for a living, but just maybe others think that EVERYONE that works should be paid a LIVING wage by their employers, not the very basic topped up by hand outs from the tax payer (which of course rules out many that dine at the top table)

I wouldn't deny that the gap between some peoples earnings, and some on the lower scale is vast. It was ever thus, and ever shall be. What is ridiculous and disingenuous is suggesting that those on the lower scale are living in 'poverty.' In this country that is simply not the case and devalues the word, as plenty that inhabit this planet most certainly are. Nobody I know, and I'm from working class stock, is going short of food or walking around in rags; constantly preaching about poverty merely alienates and infuriates the true working class, those who are actually working, as they can all see and hear what's going on around them.

So the food bank's do not exist? Or is that the reason why children are not starving to death, just at an increased risk of rickets?

 

[Ancient Citizen]

Child poverty in the UK soars to over one in four due to "austerity"
Urmston must be proud

Show me a child starving to death in England. This 'poverty' bollocks is just not hitting the spot amongst those who work for a living, if it's supposed to spur us all into revolution. It's time whatever ludicrous yardstick is used for measuring this was adjusted to encompass the real world.

Rock on Ancient, so your definition of child poverty in the 21st century is if the child is 'starving to death'?
That's cool.
I made a tongue in cheek comment earlier about Tory boys not being happy until the workhouse and the poor law were back in force.
I'm beginning to wonder now.

I'm groovin' away here, Lenny. Tell us, or better still, show us some examples of these barefoot street urchins that are quickly becoming artful dodger-like in order to keep their bellies full.
Poverty, real grinding poverty, is not pretty or desirable, you'll have a hard job selling the idea of not having the latest Xbox as an example, and Tory boys are not my usual bedfellows, I much prefer wildcat socialists.

 

[Ancient Citizen]

The simple facts are that the gap between the have's and the have not's is getting wider at an faster rate than in recent history, and the number's of working poor is also escalating, you are not the only one that works for a living, but just maybe others think that EVERYONE that works should be paid a LIVING wage by their employers, not the very basic topped up by hand outs from the tax payer (which of course rules out many that dine at the top table)

I wouldn't deny that the gap between some peoples earnings, and some on the lower scale is vast. It was ever thus, and ever shall be. What is ridiculous and disingenuous is suggesting that those on the lower scale are living in 'poverty.' In this country that is simply not the case and devalues the word, as plenty that inhabit this planet most certainly are. Nobody I know, and I'm from working class stock, is going short of food or walking around in rags; constantly preaching about poverty merely alienates and infuriates the true working class, those who are actually working, as they can all see and hear what's going on around them.

So the food bank's do not exist? Or is that the reason why children are not starving to death, just at an increased risk of rickets?

My son was out of work for ages and used foodbanks, if they're there anybody would. He got £75quid a week dole, plus his rent and council tax paid, after about £20 to keep warm, there is enough to feed himself, not much of a life, I know, but not poverty as I would describe it.
People with children get far more than this, quite rightly, and trying to sell poverty as a means to reinforce a political persuasion doesn't work.

 

[Mustard Dave]

Poverty these days seems to be defined as only having the basic Sky package, iPhone 4s and only being able to afford McDonalds six days a week.

 

[shemnel]

Show me a child starving to death in England. This 'poverty' bollocks is just not hitting the spot amongst those who work for a living, if it's supposed to spur us all into revolution. It's time whatever ludicrous yardstick is used for measuring this was adjusted to encompass the real world.

The simple facts are that the gap between the have's and the have not's is getting wider at an faster rate than in recent history, and the number's of working poor is also escalating, you are not the only one that works for a living, but just maybe others think that EVERYONE that works should be paid a LIVING wage by their employers, not the very basic topped up by hand outs from the tax payer (which of course rules out many that dine at the top table)

I wouldn't deny that the gap between some peoples earnings, and some on the lower scale is vast. It was ever thus, and ever shall be. What is ridiculous and disingenuous is suggesting that those on the lower scale are living in 'poverty.' In this country that is simply not the case and devalues the word, as plenty that inhabit this planet most certainly are. Nobody I know, and I'm from working class stock, is going short of food or walking around in rags; constantly preaching about poverty merely alienates and infuriates the true working class, those who are actually working, as they can all see and hear what's going on around them.

well, ive worked and moved in certain circles and sadly there are people in Britain who are hungry all of the time and use food banks to get buy. They dont wear 'rags' as they have 2 sets of clothes they permanently wear and do not wash. They exist, they are marginalised, and you rarely see them due to lack of exposure and their own shame.

You can't really use a 3rd world use of the word poverty in the UK situation, it is a relative position in my opinion, or relative poverty if you like. To say someone has to be starving and grovelling on the floor in filthy and torn rags to be in poverty in the UK is silly, as we progress as time goes on and we strive for higher standards for every citizen. What i have never understood is why everyone isnt on board with this? why must the person at the bottom be filth-ridden and starving and destitute? why cant the person at the bottom be better off than that? why cant we all strive for higher standards for everyone?

 

[Len Rum]

My opinion
But don't chastise me too hard for it
Its just the way my mindset has been programmed during my "extras" role in this fantastic great film we all currently star in ;
I do not mean to ridicule or chastise or berate anyone on here.
Its just my opinion right or wrong
So stay happy peeps eh ;


Not too sure about the re-insurgence of rickets ?
Poverty by definition has moved onto a different playing field
Not measured by britchless urchins scouring for scraps of coal to warm
their families or sheep rustling off farmer palmer for the Sunday roast.
Or even gangs of Fagin-esque scallywags plying their trade to feed their
distended stomachs.

The new definition of poverty is defined by how big your flat screen tv is or whether you have a smart phone or not or how fast your internet connection is.
If you kiddie farm correctly you can dance the dance with the best of them

The safety net was never designed to allow you more than an individual who grafts
It was as the name suggests a safety net to help out in times of need
And please lets not have too many views concerning insensitivity
I really am sensitive to the core and finely tuned to my fellow earthlings needs and wants
We are all one big happy family carving out our niche through this game of life
But we have to remain realistic about what is or is not achievable if you don't work
We no longer live in Dickensian England.

You want to know what real poverty is
Try living under a corrugated iron sheet with a family of six in toe
No state benefits no medical help no schooling
I saw this in Mumbai

Sending your pan lid to the well to get some clean drinking water that is 20 miles away
Hoping that dads blow dart aim is true today so the village can eat
Hoping your pan lid will not get troffed by said crocodile at the watering hole
The only watering hole I know for sure that "some" unemployed peeps frequent is the local Offie
Feel free to yelp away to that one if you wish because I know it to be true .

And yep i have been unlucky to have been very poorly in the past
And I have been unemployed for many periods of my journey
A journey for all of us that is in essence one big snakes and ladder board
The snake on 84 is a bad ass one and one we encounter regularly as working class peeps+
Be nice to peeps on the way up as you will meet them again on the way back down
The money on benefits to be honest was dire but we managed as it was the safety net cast out to protect us all by our generous nation
I am not unsympathetic to anyone's cause
But realistic to know that the absolute majority of people who have fallen on hard times do not starve in this marvelous country of ours

The above is only my view and is correct for me
Some will agree and some will disagree
That is why we debate the issue

I am sure the army of hopeless people at the Calais camps would disagree wholeheartedly about our lack of care and empathy.
We do care about everyone and that is why we remain such a popular place for our friendly refugees to enter.
Whats wrong with France then,yes snails and garlic are not everyone's cup of tea but is france so blooming bad
Two of my favourite singers came from France
Edith Piaf and charlie azenevoir

Life is so complicated eh

But back on topic we go

Honk away for your friendly fireman if push comes to shove
You get my support and good luck in all you do
Amen

Very eloquent and eccentric but ultimately a load of nonsense.
Poverty depends on the time and place you live and there are different definitions which are contested.Go on the internet to have a look if you're interested in the facts. But just to set your record straight - in the UK poverty is not defined at either of the extremes you mentioned i.e. How big your flat screen tv is nor is whether you live in the conditions you described in Mumbai.

 

[Len Rum]

My opinion
But don't chastise me too hard for it
Its just the way my mindset has been programmed during my "extras" role in this fantastic great film we all currently star in ;
I do not mean to ridicule or chastise or berate anyone on here.
Its just my opinion right or wrong
So stay happy peeps eh ;


Not too sure about the re-insurgence of rickets ?
Poverty by definition has moved onto a different playing field
Not measured by britchless urchins scouring for scraps of coal to warm
their families or sheep rustling off farmer palmer for the Sunday roast.
Or even gangs of Fagin-esque scallywags plying their trade to feed their
distended stomachs.

The new definition of poverty is defined by how big your flat screen tv is or whether you have a smart phone or not or how fast your internet connection is.
If you kiddie farm correctly you can dance the dance with the best of them

The safety net was never designed to allow you more than an individual who grafts
It was as the name suggests a safety net to help out in times of need
And please lets not have too many views concerning insensitivity
I really am sensitive to the core and finely tuned to my fellow earthlings needs and wants
We are all one big happy family carving out our niche through this game of life
But we have to remain realistic about what is or is not achievable if you don't work
We no longer live in Dickensian England.

You want to know what real poverty is
Try living under a corrugated iron sheet with a family of six in toe
No state benefits no medical help no schooling
I saw this in Mumbai

Sending your pan lid to the well to get some clean drinking water that is 20 miles away
Hoping that dads blow dart aim is true today so the village can eat
Hoping your pan lid will not get troffed by said crocodile at the watering hole
The only watering hole I know for sure that "some" unemployed peeps frequent is the local Offie
Feel free to yelp away to that one if you wish because I know it to be true .

And yep i have been unlucky to have been very poorly in the past
And I have been unemployed for many periods of my journey
A journey for all of us that is in essence one big snakes and ladder board
The snake on 84 is a bad ass one and one we encounter regularly as working class peeps+
Be nice to peeps on the way up as you will meet them again on the way back down
The money on benefits to be honest was dire but we managed as it was the safety net cast out to protect us all by our generous nation
I am not unsympathetic to anyone's cause
But realistic to know that the absolute majority of people who have fallen on hard times do not starve in this marvelous country of ours

The above is only my view and is correct for me
Some will agree and some will disagree
That is why we debate the issue

I am sure the army of hopeless people at the Calais camps would disagree wholeheartedly about our lack of care and empathy.
We do care about everyone and that is why we remain such a popular place for our friendly refugees to enter.
Whats wrong with France then,yes snails and garlic are not everyone's cup of tea but is france so blooming bad
Two of my favourite singers came from France
Edith Piaf and charlie azenevoir

Life is so complicated eh

But back on topic we go

Honk away for your friendly fireman if push comes to shove
You get my support and good luck in all you do
Amen

Very eloquent and eccentric but ultimately a load of nonsense.
Poverty depends on the time and place you live and there are different definitions which are contested.Go on the internet to have a look if you're interested in the facts. But just to set your record straight - in the UK poverty is not defined at either of the extremes you mentioned i.e. How big your flat screen tv is nor is whether you live in the conditions you described in Mumbai.

No it does not
It depends on whether you have food in your bellies have a roof over your head heating and light
Can afford the odd gill of ale at night and a flat screen TV to help maintain your sanity
Clean sheets and a bed to lie on
Which incidentally is the same as I get grafting which I am indeed totally happy with


So how is it defined in the new world Len
It may indeed be nonsense to you but your definition of abject poverty digresses from mine
Explain poverty to me Len in a reasoned way in modern day Britain
Educate me pal

Yes it does.
Look up the definitions of relative income poverty. It's related to the place you live in. You might not think that that represents poverty but so what, that's just your view.
I notice that the definition of poverty in your first post of big flat screen tv , smart phone, internet connection etc was downgraded in your second post presumably to try and bring your new definition in line with a standard of living you think falls within the UK definition. In other words you were exaggerating or wumming in your first post in order to make a point.
I know what you're trying to say I.e. that current definitions of poverty are in your view not poverty at all. I disagree, I think the official measures do.