If the rot continues what happens ?

The only players missing yesterday were
Foden, Kovacic, Stones and Akanji and Ake.

Foden has been in as much a malaise as anyone. Kovacic is a miss I grant you. And Akanji is preferable to Walker and Lewis. Stones and Ake are so injury prone I wouldn't count on them playing enough to halt the slide we are on.
And yes Bobb should be available in the NY.

I admire your confidence. But for me this is a mental thing as much as physical. And not just the players. Other teams have copied and adapted the way we play and so far we are just rinsing and repeating a style that has served us well but is probably past its sell by date.
The purchases of Haaland, Doku, Savinho hinted that Pep and Txiki knew this.

We finished last season with 9 consecutive wins. If you think that a dramatic change in the league has happened since then, I beg to differ.

The main change is a combination of injuries and bad luck in the form of missing chances, including last night. We could have been 3 goals up at Sporting or a goal up at Juve. Once players come back or regain form, and those chances go in, the results will improve significantly. Again, the bad results are a consequence of many injuries and bad luck. There is little doubt we are going to improve. However, in order to reach the heights of previous seasons, we'll need Rodri back and several new players.
 
Last edited:
The thing we have to remember is that this setback - major as it feels - won't last long. We're now so big, so well-run, and so successful, that we'll simply never fuck off from the top table for long ever again. If Pep or the players aren't pulling their weight, we simply change things in the summer and spend big bucks to get things right again. Should the 130 charges hit and slam us down the divisions, our sheer size will bring us back up inside 10 years, possibly sooner.

We simply have too much money now, and too big a following, for us to ever be relegated via normal means. Like it or not, that's just the way football is now - solid money keeps you safe. So long as you have a semi-decent structure and a lot of cash, it's basically impossible to fall on genuinely hard times. Whether through will, determination, cash, or other means, the turds that would sink in any other era of football just don't get fully flushed anymore.

Between the Second World War and the early 1980s, First Division title winners would expect to experience burnout the following season, or they wouldn't be able to keep a quality team and staff together for a 5 or 10-year stretch like you can now. It was just expected that great teams would have their day in the sun and then go back to mid-table (or lower) while another team got a turn at creating a few special memories for themselves.

Wolves won the First Divison in 1958 and 1959 and won the FA Cup in 1960, were almost relegated in 1962 and were finally relegated in 1965. Burnley won the First Division in 1960, collapsed to 9th by 1964 and were relegated in 1971 after years of finishing 12th-14th. West Brom won the League Cup in 1966 and the FA Cup in 1968, relegated in 1973. Derby County were First Division champions in 1972 and 1975, but were relegated in 1980.

You could even look at City: First Division winners in 1968, FA Cup in 1969, Cup Winners Cup in 1970, finished 11th in 1971. Then won the League Cup in 1976 and went for the title in 1977 - relegated in 1983. And United: won the first Division in 1967 and the European Cup in 1968, but were relegated in 1974. Leeds won everything in sight between 1968 and 1974 but were in Division Two by 1982.

Nottm Forest - won everything in sight between 1977 and 1980 but were a mid-table side once again by the mid-1980s, had a revival at the end of the 1980s but went from winning two consecutive League Cups in 1989 and 1990 to relegation in 1993. Aston Villa had a great period of success between 1972 and 1982 but were relegated in 1987. English football history is a story of constant rise and fall - that's why our pyramid system was the best.

The Premier League changed all that.

Look at what's happened to Chelsea, Arsenal, United, and Liverpool since 1992. They've all had dry spells and "banter eras" that were written about at the time as though they were catastrophes, but the lowest any of them have ever finished in the Premier League era is 10th (Chelsea in 2016). The lowest that any of Arsenal, United, and Liverpool have finished since 1992 is 8th - all of them have always finished between 1st-8th since the formation of the Premier League.

Since their last Premier League title in 2004, Arsenal have still won 5x FA Cups and 6x Comm Shields, have reached 3x League Cup finals and 1x Europa League final, and have been runners-up in the Premier League three times. Since their last title in 2013, United have won 2x FA Cups, 2x League Cups, 2x Comm Shields, 1x Europa League, and have been Premier League runners up twice. Hardly anything to shake a stick at.

And in the 30 years Liverpool went without a Premier League title, they still won 4x FA Cups, 6x League Cups, 1x UEFA Cup, 2x European Cups, 3x Super Cups/Club World Cups, 1x Comm Shield, were FA Cup runners-up twice, League Cup runners-up twice, European Cup runners-up three times, and Europa League runners-up once. So many legends and happy times have passed through the doors at the Emirates, Old Trafford, and Anfield in "bad times".

You can look across the continent as well, at Barcelona, AC Milan and Inter Milan, Juventus, Atletico Madrid, etc. European superpowers who dominated the footballing landscape 2000s and 2010s (or just the 2010s in Atleti's case). All have been hit with lean periods and financial scandals, etc. but they were all just too big to be flushed away or overtaken by the teams below them. And now they're all back at the very top table again.

I mean, fuck, look at City again. Yes, we were mediocre for a generation and sank all the way to the third tier. But, because we were Manchester City, one of biggest clubs in England, we were able to afford the players and staff who carried us all the way back to the top flight and kept us there within three years. It even gets said on Sky Sports after the 5-2 win at Stoke: "Twice league champions, FA Cup winners four times, League Cup winners twice, European Cup Winners Cup winners... are going down into Division Two."

It was a massive, massive shock, even in 1998, that a club our size could fall so far - but within two years we were back in the top flight and within 10 years we were a solid mid-table PL team again. Since the takeover, what we are now is so much bigger, run so much better, and so much more powerful that the "bad times" won't come for another generation, maybe longer. We'll definitely fall from the very, very top one day soon, but it'll never be that far.

The only team in recent years who've done an equivalent of a 60s, 70s-style rise and fall is Leicester. Premier League winners in 2016 and FA Cup winners in 2021, relegated in 2023. But even they only spent one year slapping second tier teams silly before getting right back into the big time. And the only team to really collapse from winners to (virtual) nobodies in a generation is Leeds, and that was enforced by serious financial mismanagement - and maybe Wigan or Portsmouth at a push, but again, serious financial negligence caused that.

If I was going to predict how things will look over the next decade (providing the 130 charges aren't proved), I think once Pep goes in 2027 there will be a downturn. But I think that downturn is going to look a lot better viewed as part of the bigger picture because what we've been building over the last 15 years. If all we have to show for ourselves between 2027 and 2037 is finishing 2nd-8th and winning the odd cup, what's the harm in that?
Looked a little further into this. Decided to test my theory a bit more and see how many First Division/Premier League title winners (in the post-WW2 era) were relegated from the top flight within 10 years of lifting the trophy.

Of the First Division winners between 1950 and 1959, three teams (Portsmouth, Wolves, and Chelsea) were all relegated from the First Division within 10 years of winning the title.

Between 1960 and 1969, two teams (Ipswich, Manchester United) were relegated within 10 years of winning the First Division title. One club (Burnley) was relegated 11 years afterwards

From 1970 to 1979, two teams (Derby County, Leeds United) were relegated within 10 years of winning the First Division title. One club (Nottm Forest) were relegated 15 years afterwards.

Between 1980 and 1989, one team (Aston Villa) were relegated within 10 years of winning the First Division title.

From 1990 to 1999, one team (Blackburn Rovers) were relegated within 10 years of winning the Premier League title. One team (Leeds United) were relegated 12 years after winning the First Division title.

Between 2000 and 2009, no teams were relegated within 10 years of winning the Premier League title. In fact, no team to win the Premier League in the 2000s has ever finished below 10th.

Between 2010 and 2019, one team (Leicester) has been relegated within 10 years of winning the Premier League title. No other 2010s Premier League champion has finished below 10th in the table.
 
If the rot continues, we’ll have a bad season. That’s all. Not the end of the world.

Two bad seasons under Pep isn’t at all bad (the first and this one, if that’s what happens). If we go on to have 7 seasons after this one, even half as good as we’ve had in the previous 7, then we’re in for a great time ahead.

I highly doubt this will carry on next season, so we grit our teeth, tough it out and get behind the manager and the team. Anyone not getting behind them is a ****. Don’t care who that upsets. These moaning fuckers are happy to celebrate when we’re good but can’t get behind them when they’re bad, that’s the opposite of a supporter.
If you talk down to people like that don't be surprised to receive no respect in return. We are all entitled to our views if they are expressed in a reasonable manner.
 
Realistically, I'd imagine all could be far worse than Walker, Lewis and Gundo.

Though I do agree with giving either Wright or O'Reilly a go alongside one of the senior players.
Walker and Lewis are costing us around 1 goal each per game at the moment. Really hard to understand how any of the youth players could be any worse. Let’s see what happens on Sunday.
 
If we can sign 3 top class players, plus Rodri returns as new then I think all our problems go away. However, if is a very big word.
 
we're doooooooooooomeeeeeeeeeeeed!!

Haaland is playing like Lee Bradley, the rest of them not much better. Too many tired players, great in their day but now spent forces... others just out of form, injured or maybe just not bothered..? The thing is, for a club that has been so well run and managed for close to 15-years now, what on earth have they been doing to get to this stage?
 
Walker and Lewis are costing us around 1 goal each per game at the moment. Really hard to understand how any of the youth players could be any worse. Let’s see what happens on Sunday.
Lewis is not a defender as he is not quick, tall or strong enough. What he is, is a very good young footballer. He tends to be really busy in the first half but then tires in the second which is not surprising seeing he is expected to play full back, midfield and striker.

Walker looks mentally tired to me. Needs to just concentrate on defensive duties.
 

Don't have an account? Register now and see fewer ads!

SIGN UP
Back
Top
  AdBlock Detected
Bluemoon relies on advertising to pay our hosting fees. Please support the site by disabling your ad blocking software to help keep the forum sustainable. Thanks.