IHRA definition of antisemitism and all the examples.

[Prestwich_Blue]

And that tbf is it in a nutshell, am I right in saying since the kingdom of Israel, even as a protectorate of rome, that area has been occupied by a foriegn force from samaritan settlers aroumd 132 to the ottomans with various arab invasions and crusaders in the middle ages pilaging and claiming the land as holy.

One thing though is about gaza, am aware it was part of the roman region of Judea, but I was always under the impression that in reality it was never really part of either the kingdom of Israel or the smaller Kindgom of Judea, but Assyian and bfore that the philistines, so really can claim true independance in historical terms.

I'm don't really know to be honest but I'm sure you're right.

 

[Kazzydeyna]

There’s an interesting theory that the Balfour Declaration was itself the product of antisemitism, coming just 12 years after the Aliens Act of 1905. That was passed to give the Home Secretary greater control over immigration following a political storm over the wave of Jewish migration from Eastern Europe. The Jewish establishment mostly opposed the Declaration as they saw it as the first step in Britain trying to offload many of these Jews to Palestine.

So we had the bizarre situation of a generally antisemitic British establishment supporting a Jewish homeland that was seen as something of a Trojan horse by many Jews. History can be weird sometimes.

Cant it just.!

Where do you think the world will be in relation to Israel/Palestine in , say, 100 years?

I used to think there would end up a viable, if not fragile from time to time, two-state solution, eventually and in my wilder optimistic moments I even thought given time there might even be a more peaceful status quo (think of the north of Ireland as it is these days compared to the 70's for example) but the last few years I just cant imagine it.

What has happened to the more accommodating shall we say parties in Israel? I do understand there is a large number of more liberal, indeed secular, Jews who are more open to making peace moves with the Palestinians but we never hear if them anymore . Is that because of our broadcasters bias not reporting it or have they declined significantly in numbers?

 

[Prestwich_Blue]

Cant it just.!

Where do you think the world will be in relation to Israel/Palestine in , say, 100 years?

I used to think there would end up a viable, if not fragile from time to time, two-state solution, eventually and in my wilder optimistic moments I even thought given time there might even be a more peaceful status quo (think of the north of Ireland as it is these days compared to the 70's for example) but the last few years I just cant imagine it.

What has happened to the more accommodating shall we say parties in Israel? I do understand there is a large number of more liberal, indeed secular, Jews who are more open to making peace moves with the Palestinians but we never hear if them anymore . Is that because of our broadcasters bias not reporting it or have they declined significantly in numbers?

I used to think the same as you but am getting increasingly pessimistic.

As to your point about the more moderate parties I think it's a question of both electoral arithmetic and leadership. Israel has a proportional representation system meaning that any party that gets above something like 2.5 or 3% of the vote gets seats in proportion to their share of the vote. In the 2015 election Netanyahu's Likud party got 23.4% of the total vote and got 30 seats in the 120-seat Knesset. He obviously needed to form a coalition to get to 61 and his natural partners are the religious & settler parties, who got 27 seats between them, leaving him a few short of the necessary majority. The leftist parties got 42 seats between them so it then comes down to the centrist parties. Netanyahu managed to persuade one of them to join his coalition, giving him the 61+ seats he needed.

To get these coalitions they have to give cabinet and other government jobs to their MP's and make some other promises. So you might get a centrist party that is prepared to be more accommodating as far as the Palestinians are concerned but will get an economic or social concession that convinces them to join a coalition where the others aren't so accommodating. This was the case with the Kulanu party who eventually gave Netanyahu their 10 seats to form his coalition. So even if they or Netanyahu himself was all for getting rid of most of the settlements etc, they'd still be in the grip of the right-wing coalition parties who aren't and he, much like May, is just interested in holding onto power. When you've just got enough seats to do that then every small, single-issue party can hold you to ransom.

Parties also shift alliances so you'll often get a joint list involving two or more parties, where they agree to combine their candidate lists and campaign on a joint ticket. If the centre-left had a charismatic leader then they'd stand a better chance but they haven't really had one for a while.