Yes it matters because there's an obvious difference between creating chances from minute 1 because you control midfield and move the ball well vs. creating chances for 15 minutes when you've brought on 3 extra forwards and are risking everything on the counter because you've got no choice.
Seems like you're just trying to shoehorn a dislike of Gundogan into whether Germany would have been better off creating chances within a stable set up or leaving it to a kamikaze last 15 minutes where they inevitably conceded because they had no control on the game.
Nail on the head. Gundogan is very underrated by some posters on here. Probably because he doesn't charge around diving into tackles?I disagree, I thought he made a big difference against Sweden, he just moved the ball much more quickly, and his control at the back allowed Kroos to get forward and focus on just putting the killer ball in, which lead to a bunch of their chances before the equaliser.
Germany were sloppy in possession, didn't look after the ball and that's just not going to be the case with Gundogan there. The worst thing is Khedira is so bloody slow that Gundogan doesn't even look like a defensive liability in comparison.
Nail on the head. Gundogan is very underrated by some posters on here. Probably because he doesn't charge around diving into tackles?
He doesn’t create big chances like Kev or Dave on top of rarely making tackles.
Is it fair to make that comparison? Without regular starts he's not going to have the same level of understanding with his teammates as those that play regularly.
In fact if you look at when he did get a consistent run of games in the side it culminated in that masterful display against Chelsea at home.
We'd be hard pushed to find a better alternative to fill the role he provides in the squad.
I try my best not to hate on any City players. I don’t love Gundogan, in fact he frustrates me, but I don’t hate him and want him ran off either. I think Gundogan is a unique case for us fans because you can make compelling arguments as to what he does wrong and how he/we can improve the position but at the same time you can make great arguments for him being a great third choice with potential of improvement.
To answer your question though I think it’s fair to make those comparisons because he did log 1500 plus minutes in the Prem and only gave us something like .30 G+A per 90 which in our system and in that role is pretty poor. You can make a case for why that isn’t the be all end all but it’s fair game to bring that up and gives credence to the ‘he disappears’ tag that some slap on him. I won’t berate him for his defense + pressing + tackling + duals but I think it’s fair to say he’s far behind Dave + Kev with his effort in those categories.
As you say though we’d be hard pressed to find a better third option and I think he’s got a fair chance at making a noticeable jump in form next season.
I think if he doesn’t show improvement he’ll be the biggest boo boy and I think that’s kind of fair.
Sorry but I'm not having that last line, it's never fair to have a boo boy unless they're acting like a complete shithouse.
I appreciate what you're saying about the minutes played but it wasn't until towards the end of the season that he managed to get two games in a row. Another point I take issue with is 'that role', what role exactly? His role is constantly changing, from covering all three of our centre mid options, that shows great versatility, something I'd imagine all three of our regular starters would struggle with.
I get the frustrations some have with him, the reluctance on occasion to compete for the ball being my main gripe but in the main he provides a vital role for the squad and deserves our support.
Looking forward to seeing what he can do next season with a proper preseason in his legs.
I responded to a post where someone said he would have changed the game.
I said I didn't think he would have made much of difference, you dissagree. He didn't do much for me in the Sweden game aside from his usual pass the ball sideways.
I really don't understand some of the negative feeling towards Gundogan from our own fans. Most seem to be against him and think he should be replaced, i thought he had a good season and stepped on when needed. Great part of the squad for me.