Ilkay Gundogan - 2019/20 Performances

[Rolee]

I'm not going to argue the point. I think the teams results with him at 8 mean I don't need to. For the majority of his City career, he has been extremely average, however I concede that for the 2nd half of last season, he was excellent, playing as a 6. He has shown nothing on a regular basis, to suggest that he should be playing any other position than as a 6. Yes, we can pick out a Barca or a Chelsea but those level of performance are too few and far between. He should play as a 6, or not at all.

I don’t agree at all, his lack of mobility can work against him at times and that gets more exposed now that Silva is slowing even further, put Bernardo, KDB or Foden next to him and he's fine.

The levels of derision toward him from some on here are ridiculous.

 

[OrigamiNinja]

I don’t agree at all, his lack of mobility can work against him at times and that gets more exposed now that Silva is slowing even further, put Bernardo, KDB or Foden next to him and he's fine.

The levels of derision toward him from some on here are ridiculous.

Forget what I, or people say on here, the results speak for themselves. This is no personal vendetta against Gundogan. If he continues at 8, the results tell us that we will struggle to win anything this season and ultimately, that is all I am interested in.

 

[Rolee]

Forget what I, or people say on here, the results speak for themselves. This is no personal vendetta against Gundogan. If he continues at 8, the results tell us that we will struggle to win anything this season and ultimately, that is all I am interested in.

They don't speak for themselves, there's a number of variables to consider. You just don't want to debate the finer points.

 

[OrigamiNinja]

They don't speak for themselves, there's a number of variables to consider. You just don't want to debate the finer points.

There is very little to debate. I get your point regarding who he plays alongside and that may have some merit but for me, he is the 5th choice number 8 in this squad. I think any team that continually plays a 5th choice in any position, is not going to be at the peak of their powers. Add to this to the fact he is now 3rd choice number 6 and what you have is a player that shouldn't be getting anywhere near this side, never mind being a regular in it.

 

[Rolee]

There is very little to debate. I get your point regarding who he plays alongside and that may have some merit but for me, he is the 5th choice number 8 in this squad. I think any team that continually plays a 5th choice in any position, is not going to be at the peak of their powers. Add to this to the fact he is now 3rd choice number 6 and what you have is a player that shouldn't be getting anywhere near this side, never mind being a regular in it.

Of course theres very little to debate. Smh

 

[alexmcity]

There is very little to debate. I get your point regarding who he plays alongside and that may have some merit but for me, he is the 5th choice number 8 in this squad. I think any team that continually plays a 5th choice in any position, is not going to be at the peak of their powers. Add to this to the fact he is now 3rd choice number 6 and what you have is a player that shouldn't be getting anywhere near this side, never mind being a regular in it.

Why does Pep play Gundogan? Because he is blind about his weaknesses, unlike you? Or because you are blind about what he offers, unlike Pep?

 

[OrigamiNinja]

Why does Pep play Gundogan? Because he is blind about his weaknesses, unlike you? Or because you are blind about what he offers, unlike Pep?

I think Pep has a bit of a blind spot where Gundogan is concerned and overrates his qualities as an 8. I don't think I am alone in this assessment.

 

[alexmcity]

I think Pep has a bit of a blind spot where Gundogan is concerned and overrates his qualities as an 8. I don't think I am alone in this assessment.

We won 14 games in a row, and thus the title, with Gundogan playing a significant role in most of them.

Pep is a huge competitior and places success above personal relationships. He has trained many of the best players in the world week in week out and can immediately recognise the strengths and weaknesses of a given player, especialy with regard to his system. To think that fans can estimate better the qualities of a player than him is a bit naive. He has a very sophisticated system of playing which is generally beyond the understanding of pundits and fans. Even a tactical genius like Bielsa says he struggles to understand how Pep's tactics works so well. If you don't understand the system in its details, you can't be sure what makes it work and what Pep wants from the players. And if you don't know this, you can't be sure whether a given player is 1st, 3rd or 5th choice.

This does not mean that Pep doesn't make mistakes. Many variables are involved and even Pep can't sometimes do justice to all of them. But given that he is managing Gundogan for a 4th season now, it is highly unlikely that he fails to realise his strengths and weaknesses.

That said, Gundogan doesn't make my personal best XI, I'd play Kevin and Bernardo ahead of Rodri, and would have Dave and Gundo on the bench. But then what happens with Foden? In order to have Foden on the bench or in the first XI, Bernardo has to be employed on the wings. So, it's not only about the individual qualities of players, but also about politics: respecting the senior players and finding a place for the future stars. I think if Pep doesn't play the right players in a given game, it's because politics is involved and politics is important in the long run. We might have played Foden and Jesus against Wolves and won the game but sometimes senior players have to start in order to keep the peace in the squad, etc. It's complicated.

 

[St.Pauli support]

His problem isn't about ability, it's inconsistency.

You mean as inconsistent as Walker, Otamendi, Zin, Mendy, Sergio, Bernardo, Jesus, Stones, or David?
Why do people treat him differently then?

God we urgently need Kev back to stop this debate that will lead us nowhere.

Ilkay has his own style - like David and Bernardo and Kev and Phil have, all are different,
all have their strengths - and weaknesses. We all know them, well at least some of us do.

In contrast to any single poster on here Pep is studying the lads on a daily basis, and he has an analytical army at his side.
I know whom I trust.

 

[B\connellblue]

You mean as inconsistent as Walker, Otamendi, Zin, Mendy, Sergio, Bernardo, Jesus, Stones, or David?
Why do people treat him differently then?

God we urgently need Kev back to stop this debate that will lead us nowhere.

Ilkay has his own style - like David and Bernardo and Kev and Phil have, all are different,
all have their strengths - and weaknesses. We all know them, well at least some of us do.

In contrast to any single poster on here Pep is studying the lads on a daily basis, and he has an analytical army at his side.
I know whom I trust.

Pep can study him all he likes and consult with his analytical army all day long. Wont change the fact he is incredibly limited and a target for other teams to exploit. Far to conservative (or cowardly if you like). Either bernardo or Foden bring so much more to the team.