Ilkay Gundogan - 2019/20 Performances

[mosssideblue]

Why is 1 going on at great lengths to dis a player who is a serial winner

Coz he's a nob who, I believe is simply wumming to stir the pot

 

[grim up north]

Coz he's a nob who, I believe is simply wumming to stir the pot

He is like a dipper on Twitter

 

[mosssideblue]

He is like a dipper on Twitter

I have serious doubts about him being a blue tbh

 

[mccity]

I haven't moved one goalpost, thanks. I've provided the stats over the course of an entire season where both players have only played in midfield, going out of my way to adjust the figures for every 90 minutes played to ensure that Gundogan isn't portrayed unfairly where he otherwise would be.

Supporters are entitled to their opinion, whether that be positive or negative, however those numbers are fact. People have made a claim that one player is better than another at a number of things during the course of a debate, I've provided clear evidence to the contrary. That people don't like it because it doesn't suit their agenda is not my problem.

And, hopefully after that De Gea like howler that is Dax's last post that should spell the end of it.... or until next game.

This entire back and forth debate we've had this past week was triggered by this:

Fernandinho is every bit as creative as him and more.

In fact, I'd go as far as saying that Fernandinho is better than Gundog at every facet of the game.

That completely over the top statement is what set people off. That was the thick as pig shit conclusion that's been argued. The first point you made too was hardly a bright one either.


And funnily enough, in your phenomenal statistical review you've tripped up twice. Firstly

All in all, that to me reads game set and match to Fernandinho. In the big games, when we need defensive solidity and physicality, it's Fernandinho in a no contest.

This is a much softer conclusion than your original one. If you'd been replying to a specific comment I could understand but because you just plopped it there it suggests to me you've taken it upon yourself to make a new argument ie. you've moved the goalposts.

Also, given how YOU so clearly pointed with your phenomenal evidence out how Gundogan is a better goalscorer, assister, passer, shooter, through-ball player, chance creator, and a harder working runner, I'd make the point that you've done EVERYONE a favour and got so caught up in Gundogan bashing that you disproved not just one, but BOTH of your own original points.

And stop being a man-child and calling us Gundogan lovers like it's a bad thing.
1) What's the problem with loving a City player exactly?
2) If you'd paid attention, it's not that we're Gundogan lovers, it's that we're haters of people unnecessarily going to whatever lengths they can to attack something related to City, this case a player. We wouldn't tolerate it if a Liverpool fan did it, we wouldn't tolerate it if the media did it, so don't be surprised if there are some City fans on here that won't tolerate it when you do it.

 

[ws01]

This entire back and forth debate we've had this past week was triggered by this:


That completely over the top statement is what set people off. That was the thick as pig shit conclusion that's been argued. The first point you made too was hardly a bright one either.


And funnily enough, in your phenomenal statistical review you've tripped up twice. Firstly

This is a much softer conclusion than your original one. If you'd been replying to a specific comment I could understand but because you just plopped it there it suggests to me you've taken it upon yourself to make a new argument ie. you've moved the goalposts.

Also, given how YOU so clearly pointed with your phenomenal evidence out how Gundogan is a better goalscorer, assister, passer, shooter, through-ball player, chance creator, and a harder working runner, I'd make the point that you've done EVERYONE a favour and got so caught up in Gundogan bashing that you disproved not just one, but BOTH of your own original points.

And stop being a man-child and calling us Gundogan lovers like it's a bad thing.
1) What's the problem with loving a City player exactly?
2) If you'd paid attention, it's not that we're Gundogan lovers, it's that we're haters of people unnecessarily going to whatever lengths they can to attack something related to City, this case a player. We wouldn't tolerate it if a Liverpool fan did it, we wouldn't tolerate it if the media did it, so don't be surprised if there are some City fans on here that won't tolerate it when you do it.

Alright, time to put you in your place as well since you've resorted to misrepresenting too.

This entire back and forth debate we've had this past week was triggered by this:

ws01 said: ↑
Fernandinho is every bit as creative as him and more.

In fact, I'd go as far as saying that Fernandinho is better than Gundog at every facet of the game.

No it wasn't. It was this:

Both Dinho and Rodri are considerably better than him mate, and in that that order.

Gundog has proven beyond reasonable doubt that he can do a quality job against this level of opposition. He struggles against better teams.

I also retracted that very line you've quoted erroneously

Also, stop playing the strawman. I will man up and retract the statement about being better at every single facet of the game - it was an exaggeration.

Bottom line and fundamental point is Fernandinho is a better deep or defensive midfielder than Gundogan. Gundogan has had a lot of poor performances in his time here, contrary to Dinho - this is something you and a very small minority are completely incapable of acknowledging.

My original and current conclusion is that Fernandinho is a superior DM/CM to Gundogan, who struggles in bigger matches against teams who pressure him and are physical. That hasn't changed, nor have anyone of you shown one blot of proof otherwise.

You kept wanting facts brought into the debate instead of opinion. Facts were brought, you didn't seem to like it. Can't have it both ways.

This is a much softer conclusion than your original one. If you'd been replying to a specific comment I could understand but because you just plopped it there it suggests to me you've taken it upon yourself to make a new argument ie. you've moved the goalposts.

The statistics were provided in response to statements I knew were false about Gundogan against Fernandinho, which included being greater at intercepting ball. For debate sake, I put the whole list up there, to show a fair and wide view. I also adjusted the numbers myself because Gundogan had played less minutes yet more games, yet the stats were based off per game.

Again, to keep fair. Neither you or anyone with this Gundogan agenda haven't bothered to post one fact yet - not one.

Also, given how YOU so clearly pointed with your phenomenal evidence out how Gundogan is a better goalscorer, assister, passer, shooter, through-ball player, chance creator, and a harder working runner, I'd make the point that you've done EVERYONE a favour and got so caught up in Gundogan bashing that you disproved not just one, but BOTH of your own original points.

I don't even know what this means, or what you're trying to say. I never said Fernandinho was a better goal scorer or shooter. If you're referring to my "he's better at every facet" comment, again, here it is in case you missed it:

Also, stop playing the strawman. I will man up and retract the statement about being better at every single facet of the game - it was an exaggeration.

He's not a better passer, as the numbers show. Gundogan passes far more backwards and sideways, which confirms a part of his game fans criticise him for. The same numbers favour Fernandinho for the 2017/18 season - I can post them if you like, but I feel it'll trigger another emotional, misrepresenting whinge from you.

The rest of your post and some meme of a fat guy with a beard doesn't particularly warrant response. I don't hate Gundogan, far from it. He's a very handy player mainly against a certain tier of opposition, he has shown that is his level. That seems to be the general consensus amongst the fans, and the ones vehemently arguing against that seem to have congregated in this thread.

 

[Colin Bells Boots]

Alright, time do put you in your place to since you've resorted to misrepresenting too.



No it wasn't. It was this:



I also retracted that very line you've quoted erroneously



My original and current conclusion is that Fernandinho is a superior DM/CM to Gundogan, who struggles in bigger matches against teams who pressure him and are physical. That hasn't changed, nor have anyone of you shown one blot of proof otherwise.

You kept wanting facts brought into the debate instead of opinion. Facts were brought, you didn't seem to like it. Can't have it both wa



The statistics were provided in response to statements I knew were false about Gundogan against Fernandinho, which included being greater at intercepting ball. For debate sake, I put the whole list up there, to show a fair and wide view. I also adjusted the numbers myself because Gundogan had played less minutes yet more games, yet the stats were based off per game.

Again, to keep fair. Neither you or anyone with this Gundogan agenda haven't bothered to post one fact yet - not one.



I don't even know what this means, or what you're trying to say. I never said Fernandinho was a better goal scorer or shooter. If you're referring to my "he's better at every facet" comment, again, here it is in case you missed it:



He's not a better passer, as the numbers show. Gundogan passes far more backwards and sideways, which confirms a part of his game fans criticise him for. The same numbers favour Fernandinho for the 2017/18 season - I can post them if you like, but I feel it'll trigger another emotional, misrepresenting whinge from you.

The rest of your post and some meme of a fat guy with a beard doesn't warrant response.

Will be fucking glad when one of you gets fed up and leaves the fucking topic alone . Thank you.

 

[Dax777]

My original and current conclusion is that Fernandinho is a superior DM/CM to Gundogan, who struggles in bigger matches against teams who pressure him and are physical. That hasn't changed, nor have anyone of you shown one blot of proof otherwise.

Now that we know you have the time to produce the evidence (contrary to what you claimed prior), care to now produce the evidence of your original conclusions:

"Gundogan who struggles in bigger matches against teams who pressure him and are physical."

As you said, your inability to show evidence of this was what started the argument. At the time you claimed not to have the time, now that it's clear you do. Feel free to produce the evidence of Gundogan playing poorly in big games.

Over to you. :)

 

[mccity]

Alright, time to put you in your place as well since you've resorted to misrepresenting too.



No it wasn't. It was this:



I also retracted that very line you've quoted erroneously



My original and current conclusion is that Fernandinho is a superior DM/CM to Gundogan, who struggles in bigger matches against teams who pressure him and are physical. That hasn't changed, nor have anyone of you shown one blot of proof otherwise.

You kept wanting facts brought into the debate instead of opinion. Facts were brought, you didn't seem to like it. Can't have it both ways.



The statistics were provided in response to statements I knew were false about Gundogan against Fernandinho, which included being greater at intercepting ball. For debate sake, I put the whole list up there, to show a fair and wide view. I also adjusted the numbers myself because Gundogan had played less minutes yet more games, yet the stats were based off per game.

Again, to keep fair. Neither you or anyone with this Gundogan agenda haven't bothered to post one fact yet - not one.



I don't even know what this means, or what you're trying to say. I never said Fernandinho was a better goal scorer or shooter. If you're referring to my "he's better at every facet" comment, again, here it is in case you missed it:



He's not a better passer, as the numbers show. Gundogan passes far more backwards and sideways, which confirms a part of his game fans criticise him for. The same numbers favour Fernandinho for the 2017/18 season - I can post them if you like, but I feel it'll trigger another emotional, misrepresenting whinge from you.

The rest of your post and some meme of a fat guy with a beard doesn't particularly warrant response. I don't hate Gundogan, far from it. He's a very handy player mainly against a certain tier of opposition, he has shown that is his level. That seems to be the general consensus amongst the fans, and the ones vehemently arguing against that seem to have congregated in this thread.

How come being more of a forwards passer is a better metric of ability than chances created, assists, or throughballs played successfully though?

 

[ws01]

Now that we know you have the time to produce the evidence (contrary to what you claimed prior), care to now produce the evidence of your original conclusions:

"Gundogan who struggles in bigger matches against teams who pressure him and are physical."

As you said, your inability to show evidence of this was what started the argument. At the time you claimed not to have the time, now that it's clear you do. Feel free to produce the evidence of Gundogan playing poorly in big games.

Over to you. :)

Fernandinho v Gundogan - 2018/19 Premier League numbers (per 90 mins):.

You aren't coming back from that one pal - lol.

Should've probably taken the opportunity to slowly exit stage left.

 

[Rolee]

anyone with this Gundogan agenda

Bwahahahahaha