Interview with Hillsborough Victims Mother

[i8therags]

Still amazes me why terraces are banned.

They had nothing to do with people dieing.

I do miss the terrace,The kippax gave me some great memories.However,it isn;t easy to check if sections are over crowded in standing
areas.Seating is far better for controling numbers,as soon as the fans are sat down you can see straight away if that area has even 1 fan too many,I do think councils could use common sense though and allow standing in designated seated areas [south stand]the fans could be made to sit at intervals during the game to check for no overcrowding,which I think it unofficialy happens now...

 

[Andy G]

quote]
It was the for dummy's bit that was annoying mate,it's not just your fans that have followed what went on after the tragedy.
As i've said Justice for the 96,the scum that lied & hid the cctv tapes deserve long prision sentences.
The police shouldn't be allowed to get away with this.

I actually questioned the title too before it was released, but the writers and other people thought that because of the 'For dummies' books, it would be appropriate. My best mate, who is a West Ham fan said something along the lines of "Well if they have an opinion on the subect, but are factually wrong, then the title is apt anyway". He is obviously more involved than most because he had to pick up the pieces afterwards with me, but that was when I stopped lobbying against the title. It is a bit condescending, but you have heard some peoples views on the subject, so perhaps that is what is required. I still think another title would have been better, but I have no great ideas either.

 

[fathellensbellend]

the legacy of many years of hooliganism played a significant role.

the police had no trust in any supporters (not just liverpool) and on the day believed the scenes were in fact the start of a pitch invasion as opposed to what happened.

if anyone get the chance you want to read the book it really is shocking how the victims and families were treated.

<a class="postlink" href="http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/HILLSBOROUGH-THE-" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;">http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/HILLSBOROUGH-THE-</a> ... 286.c0.m14

the disater was an accident waiting to happen, and the fact that david dukinfield was in charge of only his second ever football match (the other a real low key wednesday match a cpl of weeks earlier) shows the lack of planning by the police.

make no mistake the innocent ones who died were badly let down, and the cover up a scandal.

they deserve honest answers.

 

[Prestwich_Blue]

So actually personal abuse is something you buy into.

I aplogise unreservedly for that but I was getting very frustrated with a few on here. I'm a football fan and I've stood on terraces and it chokes me up when I think of how those poor people died.

As Andy G's very calm post points out, there is no reasonable doubt about the real facts of what happened that day but many myths, most of them perpetuated by the police and the press they shamelessly briefed with what they knew to be a pack of lies. It saddens me that people still repeat those myths as "fact". You only need to look at the Jean Charles de Menezes situation to see that the police are still quite happy to make up a version of events that suits them when their negligence has been responsible for loss of life.

Yes some Liverpool fans turned up without tickets and probably got in when the police opened the gates but that made no material difference to what happened afterwards. Heysel was a different matter altogether and there I would agree that despite failures in other areas, the Liverpool fans were largely responsible for the deaths that night. But they weren't responsible for Hillsborough.

 

[bluemanc]

quote]
It was the for dummy's bit that was annoying mate,it's not just your fans that have followed what went on after the tragedy.
As i've said Justice for the 96,the scum that lied & hid the cctv tapes deserve long prision sentences.
The police shouldn't be allowed to get away with this.

I actually questioned the title too before it was released, but the writers and other people thought that because of the 'For dummies' books, it would be appropriate. My best mate, who is a West Ham fan said something along the lines of "Well if they have an opinion on the subect, but are factually wrong, then the title is apt anyway". He is obviously more involved than most because he had to pick up the pieces afterwards with me, but that was when I stopped lobbying against the title. It is a bit condescending, but you have heard some peoples views on the subject, so perhaps that is what is required. I still think another title would have been better, but I have no great ideas either.

My ex-brother in-law a scouser & a belting bloke was at the game with his son & it broke him.
The stuff that was coming out of the media that was fed them by the police was like a hot knife going in,we spent a lot of time with him & his family over the next few years & i'm not sure he'll ever get over it.

 

[Andy G]

Yes, you have been, thanks.

As I've said I haven't read the report and don't intend to. I have in laws who are Liverpool fans who were at the game. My brother in law lost a good mate at Hillsborough, and stopped going to Anfield for almost ten years after that day. My father in law hasn't been since. We've spoken about it, and they are both still disgusted at the behaviour of some Liverpool supporters prior to the sad events that unfolded.

I appreciate the police were wrong on many levels, but I cannot and do not accept that every LFC fan at the ground that day was the picture of sweetness and light. I think that is a naive idea. Surely those that arrived with no ticket, intent on getting into the ground were at least in some part responsible for what happened.

All clubs have their rogue element. All cities too. I do not think that all Liverpool fans are sweetness and light, no more than I think City fans or any others are. The key thing is that there were not too many people in Leppings lane and so there was no effect if there were people without tickets. Furthermore, if Man City got to the European Cup Final; for example, and you didn't get a ticket, would you travel anyway to see your beloved team? The ticket allocation was a contributing factor. Liverpool had an average crowd of 45k, Forest of 22k (actual figures may not be correct here, but certainly similar proportions). There were complains from Liverpool FC about this the previous season too. Now the Liverpool ticket ofice has much to be desired, and tickets often do not go to those that deserve them, so ifany blame can be put on LFC, then there it is. For that game itself, I had been to every match home and away for the previous 2 seasons, along with a couple of mates. Not all of us were entitled to tickets. We actually got them from another source (within Nottingham Forest but for the Liverpool End) to fill the needs of our ‘regular’ contingent. Our ticket office is still shite.

But that was also a small factor. The Cullen report into the Piper Alpha disaster said something along the lines of just because someone is in the position of OIM (Offshore Installation Manager), does not mean he is fit for the job in event of emergency' Now I am not on a witch hunt against Duckensfield or Murray, they have to try to get to sleep every night thinking about the results of their actions – and it was not deliberate – in fact Duckensfield was not experienced enough for the job, so perhaps his superiors should be called to question on that (who said we are all promoted to the point of incompetance?). I know Anne Williams feels sorry for him for that reason. Any disaster is a chain of events, and break one link and the disaster would not have happened. The delays because of roadworks on the M62 would probably have avoided it for examle. It was all just a horrible mess.

The causes of the disaster are no longer the key issue though, it is the cover-up by both conservatice and labour governemnts. The Taylor report was fine and factual, but it is only the Interim report that deals with what happened – The Final Report deals with recommendations and none of the causes. Which one would you read if you wanted to see what the Taylor Report concluded? The Smith scrutiny was a joke from the start with his intentions (instructions?) clear from the off.. The , ahem, ‘Apology’ from the Sun newspaper only went on to say that Liverpool people were out of order for having a go at Rooney for writing for that paper (Before he went to United, most people had sympathy for his as they reaslised it was his agent, and lets face it, he was only a baby at the time).

 

[mackenzie]

Andy G

Thanks for this thread.

Very informative, and has told me loads I didn't know via the various links etc.

I truy hope that Mrs Williams gets some answers.

 

[PistonBlue]

Yes, you have been, thanks.

As I've said I haven't read the report and don't intend to. I have in laws who are Liverpool fans who were at the game. My brother in law lost a good mate at Hillsborough, and stopped going to Anfield for almost ten years after that day. My father in law hasn't been since. We've spoken about it, and they are both still disgusted at the behaviour of some Liverpool supporters prior to the sad events that unfolded.

I appreciate the police were wrong on many levels, but I cannot and do not accept that every LFC fan at the ground that day was the picture of sweetness and light. I think that is a naive idea. Surely those that arrived with no ticket, intent on getting into the ground were at least in some part responsible for what happened.

All clubs have their rogue element. All cities too. I do not think that all Liverpool fans are sweetness and light, no more than I think City fans or any others are. The key thing is that there were not too many people in Leppings lane and so there was no effect if there were people without tickets. Furthermore, if Man City got to the European Cup Final; for example, and you didn't get a ticket, would you travel anyway to see your beloved team? The ticket allocation was a contributing factor. Liverpool had an average crowd of 45k, Forest of 22k (actual figures may not be correct here, but certainly similar proportions). There were complains from Liverpool FC about this the previous season too. Now the Liverpool ticket ofice has much to be desired, and tickets often do not go to those that deserve them, so ifany blame can be put on LFC, then there it is. For that game itself, I had been to every match home and away for the previous 2 seasons, along with a couple of mates. Not all of us were entitled to tickets. We actually got them from another source (within Nottingham Forest but for the Liverpool End) to fill the needs of our ‘regular’ contingent. Our ticket office is still shite.

But that was also a small factor. The Cullen report into the Piper Alpha disaster said something along the lines of just because someone is in the position of OIM (Offshore Installation Manager), does not mean he is fit for the job in event of emergency' Now I am not on a witch hunt against Duckensfield or Murray, they have to try to get to sleep every night thinking about the results of their actions – and it was not deliberate – in fact Duckensfield was not experienced enough for the job, so perhaps his superiors should be called to question on that (who said we are all promoted to the point of incompetance?). I know Anne Williams feels sorry for him for that reason. Any disaster is a chain of events, and break one link and the disaster would not have happened. The delays because of roadworks on the M62 would probably have avoided it for examle. It was all just a horrible mess.

The causes of the disaster are no longer the key issue though, it is the cover-up by both conservatice and labour governemnts. The Taylor report was fine and factual, but it is only the Interim report that deals with what happened – The Final Report deals with recommendations and none of the causes. Which one would you read if you wanted to see what the Taylor Report concluded? The Smith scrutiny was a joke from the start with his intentions (instructions?) clear from the off.. The , ahem, ‘Apology’ from the Sun newspaper only went on to say that Liverpool people were out of order for having a go at Rooney for writing for that paper (Before he went to United, most people had sympathy for his as they reaslised it was his agent, and lets face it, he was only a baby at the time).

Yes I agree City fans would do exactly the same thing (travel without tickets) and have on many occasions. I've done it myself most recently at Blackburn, where I managed to source one from a Rovers fan. I don't have any axe to grind with scousers at all, but if I'd gone there with no ticket and added to the chaos that day then yes, I'd feel partly responsible. That is all Ive been trying to say. Good luck with the fight for justice mate.

 

[Andy G]

My ex-brother in-law a scouser & a belting bloke was at the game with his son & it broke him.
The stuff that was coming out of the media that was fed them by the police was like a hot knife going in,we spent a lot of time with him & his family over the next few years & i'm not sure he'll ever get over it.

It is still a hot knife turning away. Thay is why it is so important, not only to get Justice in the British courts, but for the real truth to be common knowledge.

I am hardened to Hillsborough generally now - I have spoken about it loads, seen the photos, but your post has made me cry. It has been 20 years nearly, but until the myths are gone, and more importatly the families get a fair hearing in the British courts. Your friend will not truly get over it until Anne wins her case and what really happened is on the Statute books.

He thinks about it every day. Every time the numbers 15, 4, 89, or 96 are mentioned, he remembers. Every time he hears April or Sunny afternoon or Sheffield or Yorkshire or Police or emergency or crush or stand or many other words, he remembers that day.

God bless him - perhaps ask him about it.

 

[fathellensbellend]

i remember going to blackburn that day to see city lose 4-0 and seeing the 1000's of liverpool fans heading to hillsboro, scarfs out the windows etc, and coming back not a solitary scarf could be seen.

if hillsboro was to happen now, would there be another cover up, or has society changed?

certainly the publics perception of supporters has changed.

i hope for all those affected they do get justice, but in their hearts they know the truth, do they need the corrupt system to confirm what they have always known, and more importantly what any right thinking person has always known, that those who died and were injured were let down at every level.