Irish Current Affairs

[west didsblue]

Question for the NI and RoI based blues.

With the DUP in turmoil and supply chains realigning from GB to the EU, is a border poll likely any time soon?

 

[AlexWilliamsGloves]

Question for the NI and RoI based blues.

With the DUP in turmoil and supply chains realigning from GB to the EU, is a border poll likely any time soon?

Nah.

Too divisive/dangerous...taking notes from the Brexit bollix, a simple "Yes/No" referendum would be a disaster on many levels.
It can not/should not be a question of "Should NI unite with RoI"....its just not that simple.

 

[west didsblue]

Nah.

Too divisive/dangerous...taking notes from the Brexit bollix, a simple "Yes/No" referendum would be a disaster on many levels.
It can not/should not be a question of "Should NI unite with RoI"....its just not that simple.

However the GFA not only allows for it but expects it to happen if there's a clear indication that there's a good chance it would be voted for.

 

[AlexWilliamsGloves]

However the GFA not only allows for it but expects it to happen if there's a clear indication that there's a good chance it would be voted for.

Hmm, i dont think thats quite right....

What do you mean "a good chance it would be voted for"?

In favour of? against?.....in favour or against what? We dont know the question.

I believe the GFA allows for it to happen if it becomes clear there is the desire for "it" to take place.....i reckon it would quite easy for the NI Assembly to argue its not the right time....i reckon people on "both" sides of the argument would argue now is not the right time either .......and it certainly wont (better not) happen without us asking for it

 

[bluethrunthru]

well he booked a fortnight off work but can't go anywhere on holiday so why not keep the seat warm for the next incumbent?

DUP leadership: Sir Jeffrey Donaldson confirms bid for top job

The Lagan Valley MP previously said he would leave Westminster to become NI's first minister if he became leader.

www.bbc.co.uk

 

[Chris in London]

Nah.

Too divisive/dangerous...taking notes from the Brexit bollix, a simple "Yes/No" referendum would be a disaster on many levels.
It can not/should not be a question of "Should NI unite with RoI"....its just not that simple.

You seem to be suggesting that unbelievably complex questions are not best decided on a simple yes/no basis.

I assume you haven’t been following British politics for the last 5 years?

 

[mancity2012_eamo]

Question for the NI and RoI based blues.

With the DUP in turmoil and supply chains realigning from GB to the EU, is a border poll likely any time soon?

Hope not.
Let Scotland go first.
Test the waters.

 

[mancity2012_eamo]

You seem to be suggesting that unbelievably complex questions are not best decided on a simple yes/no basis.

I assume you haven’t been following British politics for the last 5 years?

5 years?
We’re living with the consequences of simply drawing a squiggly line on a map for the past 100 years.

 

[Gremlin]

5 years?
We’re living with the consequences of simply drawing a squiggly line on a map for the past 100 years.

At least the line was squiggly. Some of the biggest problems in Africa and the Middle East are as a consequence of people not being bothered with squiggles and just drawing straight lines instead.

 

[mancity2012_eamo]

At least the line was squiggly. Some of the biggest problems in Africa and the Middle East are as a consequence of people not being bothered with squiggles and just drawing straight lines instead.

Mesopotamia being the prime example.
The squiggly line up north was drawn by some guy called Gerry Mander, I believe.

 

[bluethrunthru]

Donaldson elected head of DUP - My advice would be not to be too hasty about getting that put on his business cards just yet

 

[mat]

5 years?
We’re living with the consequences of simply drawing a squiggly line on a map for the past 100 years.

This reminds me of the sketch in A Perforated Ulster where Ireland is trying to haggle which counties it will unite with.

 

[ob]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-57555630 today marks centenary of place I'm proud to come from and place Im proud to call home

 

[mancity2012_eamo]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-57555630 today marks centenary of place I'm proud to come from and place Im proud to call home

Not an incendiary question @ob as I’m genuinely interested.
Would you be as proud to call yourself Irish and British, as you would Northern Irish and British?

Or do you think labels like that are unhelpful?

 

[AlexWilliamsGloves]

Not an incendiary question @ob as I’m genuinely interested.
Would you be as proud to call yourself Irish and British, as you would Northern Irish and British?

Or do you think labels like that are unhelpful?

Interestingly, my Dad always referred to himself as Irish and British

 

[mancity2012_eamo]

Interestingly, my Dad always referred to himself as Irish and British

It’ll take big shifts in attitudes up north in certain communities, obviously, before any talk of a unity referendum.
But what you don’t hear down south so much, is that it’ll take a change in attitudes down south also. Maybe not as radical but probably more widespread and that may be just as difficult to get into the psyche of some.

In an All Ireland, perhaps under the GFA the answer may be that we all have a choice of identifying as Irish and British if we so choose.

Let that sink in with all our Rep. of Ire. forum members.
A huge debate to be had before trying to formulate a suitable referendum question, even.

Personally? I haven’t a clue what the answer is. I’ve not got a lot of confidence that any of the current crop of politicians are capable of coming up with an answer that doesn’t repeat or make worse mistakes than those in our recent history. By recent I mean particularly the last 100 years or so.

One thing I do feel certain of is that Brexit was always going to be a fuck up for Irish/NI/UK relationships and from our perspective, most unwelcome.

 

[AlexWilliamsGloves]

It’ll take big shifts in attitudes up north in certain communities, obviously, before any talk of a unity referendum.
But what you don’t hear down south so much, is that it’ll take a change in attitudes down south also. Maybe not as radical but probably more widespread and that may be just as difficult to get into the psyche of some.

In an All Ireland, perhaps under the GFA the answer may be that we all have a choice of identifying as Irish and British if we so choose.

Let that sink in with all our Rep. of Ire. forum members.
A huge debate to be had before trying to formulate a suitable referendum question, even.

Personally? I haven’t a clue what the answer is. I’ve not got a lot of confidence that any of the current crop of politicians are capable of coming up with an answer that doesn’t repeat or make worse mistakes than those in our recent history. By recent I mean particularly the last 100 years or so.

One thing I do feel certain of is that Brexit was always going to be a fuck up for Irish/NI/UK relationships and from our perspective, most unwelcome.

I was watching a 100 years of NI report on the news last night with my son (17) and he is hopeful, optimistic that things wont ever return to the "bad old days"...i agree, but we arent quite there yet...he says he appreciates that his and his sisters generation are the first to experience "peace" but was candid enough to say it wont be until his kids or grandkids were around until these proper stability

 

[mancity2012_eamo]

I was watching a 100 years of NI report on the news last night with my son (17) and he is hopeful, optimistic that things wont ever return to the "bad old days"...i agree, but we arent quite there yet...he says he appreciates that his and his sisters generation are the first to experience "peace" but was candid enough to say it wont be until his kids or grandkids were around until these proper stability

There could be a new world order by then.
Who knows how people will look at things like nationality in the future.

 

[ob]

Not an incendiary question @ob as I’m genuinely interested.
Would you be as proud to call yourself Irish and British, as you would Northern Irish and British?

Or do you think labels like that are unhelpful?

No worries don't mind asking mate. I class myself as Northern Irish in first instance. If filling out a form and options are British or Irish I select British. I have on many occasions also classed myself as Irish. For example if someone in conversation says are you Irish, I rely yea from Northern Ireland. Certainly don't like labels too much as it pigeon holes someone. Doesn't sound so confusing in my head as it does reading that

 

[mancity2012_eamo]

No worries don't mind asking mate. I class myself as Northern Irish in first instance. If filling out a form and options are British or Irish I select British. I have on many occasions also classed myself as Irish. For example if someone in conversation says are you Irish, I rely yea from Northern Ireland. Certainly don't like labels too much as it pigeon holes someone. Doesn't sound so confusing in my head as it does reading that

The whole situation is confusing even when you think you have the logic of events or history sorted in your head. All it takes is one objective opinion to raise more questions in my own mind and there have been a ton of objective views of this history presented by both the BBC and RTE in the last few years.
The GFA was facilitated by a third party country (America) and I suspect the future of the island will need something similar as a broker.
I thought the EU was the obvious candidate but Brexit has raised a crisis in this formula and has now invented ( IMO ) a new enemy for those that perhaps, see their relevance in a future United Peaceful Island, diminishing.

I agree with you that labels limit who a person is and it’s something we down south will have to get our heads around as much as anyone up north.