Irish travellers rounded up in Manchester.

Bigga said:
Let me ask you a question; in the late 80s-early 90s I know of police turning around skinheads and known footy rivals back onto trains because they caught wind of possible activities ahead; since they hadn't 'broken a law' and were profiled for their background of previous actions, do you think the gangs should have been allowed to engage in whatever activity they went to town for since they hadn't broken a law yet?

Just wondering on your scenario.
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The key detail is included in your question. They were profiled as individuals not as a group of people with protected characteristics.

Football fans are not a protected group, skinhead culture isn't either. I'd suspect the exclusionary nature of skinhead politics would potentially exclude them from claiming their politics qualified as a protected characteristic.
 
Mr Kobayashi said:
The key detail is included in your question. They were profiled as individuals not as a group of people with protected characteristics.

Football fans are not a protected group, skinhead culture isn't either. I'd suspect the exclusionary nature of skinhead politics would potentially exclude them from claiming their politics qualified as a protected characteristic.
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Actually, scratch that question.

If the group redirected back onto the train were all 'profiled as individuals' and got together as a group, where would the police stand?
 
Apparently 2 came to Manchester in a taxi from Nottingham.

I hope the taxi driver asked for the taxi fare first.
 
Bigga said:
So what was the "protected characteristic" of this recent event?
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Irish travellers or gypsy is an ethnicity.

As I alluded to earlier though, I suspect the gypsies were misbehaving themselves on the trains and British transport police were informed.

And dispersal orders can stop large groups.

You should already know this.

When you worked as a bouncer you were entitled not to admit people based on them being in a large group. You weren't entitled to deny admittance based on their ethnicity.
 
BrianW said:
I believe in the rule of law. No one should be persecuted because of their background.

By the same token, no one should get a free pass because of their background. If you break the law you should be dealt with, whether you're the Duke of Devonshire or Tim O'Reilly the 'horse dealer.'
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What about the Duke of York?
 
Bigga said:
Actually, scratch that question.

If the group redirected back onto the train were all 'profiled as individuals' and got together as a group, where would the police stand?
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It doesn't mean they can claim protected characteristics because the police have lawfully enforced a dispersal order.

If another large group of people turned up they'd get the same treatment.

Those people aren't being discriminated against because they are travellers.
 
jimharri said:
Some? You're being generous there. I've seen the state of the vast majority of sites over here after they leave. . They resemble a bomb site. They plague local shops, bars etc. Trust me, the majority of "settled" people in Ireland do not like them. But if you criticise them, you're then disrespecting their "culture".
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I’ve met some that are okay individually, quite polite and friendly but in a large group they’re a fucking nightmare. Thieving nasty bastards. I live in small place of around 3000 people and we had the pleasure of two big groups of travellers setting up camp on a playing field. They stayed for a weekend, strangely (must’ve been a coincidence) loads of stuff stolen that weekend (including a caravan and horse box) and big piles of human excrement appeared around the children’s play park, the sports field and various other places which some poor fuckers had to clean up. It was like being under siege. Totally anti-social.
 
Mr Kobayashi said:
Irish travellers or gypsy is an ethnicity.

As I alluded to earlier though, I suspect the gypsies were misbehaving themselves on the trains and British transport police were informed.

And dispersal orders can stop large groups.

You should already know this.

When you worked as a bouncer you were entitled not to admit people based on them being in a large group. You weren't entitled to deny admittance based on their ethnicity.
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When I worked the door you got 'information' on the 'group' if you were experienced. That would be style of clothing, eye contact, body language, a splitting off.

I didn't necessarily stop groups, but I would delay a gathering straight away. One gets to control the outcome that way.

A delayed bunch would either call the others or the others would come out. They'd choose another venue or they'd get a heads up on behaviour if let in. Only once did that go awry and that was with City fans, ironically.

Outcome resolved itself for the most part.

A totally different position to what the police had to deal with.
 
Mr Kobayashi said:
It doesn't mean they can claim protected characteristics because the police have lawfully enforced a dispersal order.

If another large group of people turned up they'd get the same treatment.

Those people aren't being discriminated against because they are travellers.
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So explain the crux of your 'disagreement' with others cos it seems to be from opposing positions which is why you're getting 'push back' as the Yanks say.
 
Bigga said:
When I worked the door you got 'information' on the 'group' if you were experienced. That would be style of clothing, eye contact, body language, a splitting off.

I didn't necessarily stop groups, but I would delay a gathering straight away. One gets to control the outcome that way.

A delayed bunch would either call the others or the others would come out. They'd choose another venue or they'd get a heads up on behaviour if let in. Only once did that go awry and that was with City fans, ironically.

Outcome resolved itself for the most part.

A totally different position to what the police had to deal with.
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I wasn't saying it was the same situation, I was saying that some of the same rules apply.

Police have more responsibilities and expectations are they stick to the rules more rigidly than bouncers.

I would expect bouncers to not let in a group of young men with sliced back hair, leather belts with flashy buckles, jeans and flashy trainers. But they'd be told it was because of the trainers not because they are gypsies.
 
Bigga said:
So explain the crux of your 'disagreement' with others cos it seems to be from opposing positions which is why you're getting 'push back' as the Yanks say.
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It covers a topic that should be discussed in another thread.
 
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