Is English Football reaching a tipping point?

ancoats

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the test will be in this seasons in european football and champions league by the english teams and manchester city to see if the dip is not just in the english game put on a wider scale, the style is nothing to new in football and better players can play any style and shine, its just self believing in the project that the manager has setup and his vision on what they are trying to achieve and the most important things is getting results and winning silverware

believe me football is not rocket science and to many so called great managers make the game harder than it should be and over do it instead of the basic stuff, make it simple and know your players and the rules and never cross the lines and dot's to try and make a masterpiece because it will be only you who can understand whats in your head

what i like about the good managers/teams over the years is the simple things they do they make it look so good and easy, but its just simple basic things that have others puzzled and that is the key to make them think and change what they are doing when facing you, the other teams work on there weakness and style when facing the best teams and i always find that a puzzle why work on something like defending and parking the bus when you lose anyway

just play your own game don't try and do something to stop the others you have worked hours and hours on your setup and know your roles in the team to a point you can do it in your sleep, so when facing the best team in the league the manager all of a sudden changes it and wants you to play this or that way its daft and wrong, if you played the game you know that better players and better teams and its just a fact of life if somebody is better at football than you nothing can really change they way they play , yes sometimes they can have off days or playing under par or with a injury so you maybe catch them out from time to time but the cream always rises to the top

manchester city have the best players in the premier league and the rest just have to play there own game and don't try to over think it and losing to somebody better is a fact of life, but never change and come and park the bus and defend then moan about the level and the money manchester city have
 

Eebo

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It looks like at the top end of the Premier League most teams are wanting to play a more progressive possession based technical style and can afford the players to do so.
With Sarri now at Chelsea and Emery at Arsenal it is only our Moaning Neighbours out of the "Big Six" who choose to stick with the old ways.

@ancoats Your final para is the argument (or excuse) that other lower or non-elite teams will use for sticking with the traditional English style, and may or may not be right.

I think what would take this to the next level and see it adopted lower down is what happens with Bielsa at Leeds. If he can be successful there it will show that it can be done further down the system and it is not just the wealthy clubs that can play this way. It will snowball from there.

If this happens then our investment in the Academy will start to look very smart indeed. City trained graduates, who have been brought up playing the possession style will be in demand throughout the League and will command premium prices.
 

BimboBob

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There will come a day when every team will play like this, a fluid passing style that ups the passing stats to extraordinary levels.

And then, one day, in the not too distant future, a man will pick a big gangly forward, play a little sniffer off him, stick two wingers either side with a couple of hard tackling midfielders behind and proceed to lump balls up to the "target man". It will appear revolutionary, "a new way of playing" the plaudits will say and dear old Sam Allardyce will be wheeled out and paraded to much fanfare as the real God of football.
 

Tricky_Trev

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Liverpool and Chelsea just spunked world record fees for goalkeepers that help play out from the back. It’s all the Pep effect.
 

Tricky_Trev

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There will come a day when every team will play like this, a fluid passing style that ups the passing stats to extraordinary levels.

And then, one day, in the not too distant future, a man will pick a big gangly forward, play a little sniffer off him, stick two wingers either side with a couple of hard tackling midfielders behind and proceed to lump balls up to the "target man". It will appear revolutionary, "a new way of playing" the plaudits will say and dear old Sam Allardyce will be wheeled out and paraded to much fanfare as the real God of football.
Sounds mad but this is how it works. When one style takes over, the best managers try to find a way to defeat it. And that could well result in a return to more direct football in the distant future. Liverpool do it well against us. They bypass midfield and the high press, hitting it down the sides to Mane and Salah. Eventually, more teams will copy Liverpool as an attempt to overcome Pep’s style.
 

aguero93:20

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Not many rival fans will accept it (and fair enough too), but Guardiola has done English football a huge favour - and Gareth Southgate, who is nobody's fool - was quick to say so too. It's demonstrated that this kind of football not only works in this country, but has the capacity to render the more traditional managers as being out of their depth, and unable to cope with it. Klopp too, to an extent has reinforced the point. Oddly enough, Roy Hodgson is inclined that way too, but felt unable to enforce that on England, while Wenger was very much out on his own at the time he was at his best.

So I'd argue that it's principally Guardiola, but definitely Southgate and Klopp as well who have changed a lot of perceptions. Southgate doing it with England also had the unifying effect that fans of all clubs quite liked the approach, while accepting it was very much a work in progress. But what it did was suggest a way that England could win a World Cup in future, and that's an enormous change in mentality. While Guardiola's philosophy has demolished everyone else, bar Liverpool who are now cut from not totally dissimilar cloth.

Yes. I'd say we've already reached that tipping point. And the English youth players who were able to go out and win European and World titles have also been a part of that. And the guy who put them on that path as the director of England youth development a decade ago? Gareth Southgate.

It's been a virtuous circle and it's going to make a huge difference.
Will it make a huge difference if England have an off day and get hammered by a team playing percentage football?
 

Neville Kneville

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You don't have to go full Pep, to play high quality attacking football imo.

It can be done with a mixture of playing out from the back, & playing more safe, provided there is still an accent on pass & move football.

Both Mancini & Pellegrini had a season each of playing real quality stuff. Wenger did in the past.

Pep has taken it a level further, but there is no reason pretty much all teams can't learn to play at least some kind of quality football.

It's just been the easy way out for a lot of managers in the past, to defend & hoof it. Much less hard work than teaching teams to play football. But even some teams in the lower leagues are having success at times, playing technical football.
 

Dave Ewing's Back 'eader

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All depends on the players. The first season Guardiola was here his possession game didn't work 'cos we didn't have the players. Last season we had them in every position and with spares. Nothing will change until teams have the players who can play the system the manager opts to coach. You only have to look at the game in the lower depths of the Championship, L1, L2 and the SPL to see that hoof ball is gonna be the predominant system. Pep's system requires players with a high degree of talent, and the kind of technique that seems to be epitomised in Bernardo Silva, David Silva, Leroy, Raheem, Sergio, Mahrez,
 

Henkeman

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Will it make a huge difference if England have an off day and get hammered by a team playing percentage football?

Depends who to, I suppose? To me, not at all, given that if they're making progress and improving, that's what counts. To the media who love to jump on such things, probably. I guess did any of us doubt the Guardiola way after losing to Wigan? No. But did some after being stuffed by Leicester, yes probably.
 

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