Is Mancini adapting his Inter tactics? [Tactics talk]

Outrun

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Joined
16 Nov 2007
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I am sorry if this is a "duh" moment, but I thought I'd be worth discussing since so many have their theories about our tactics. It's rather long.

I watched every one of Inter's matches during the time Mancini managed Inter, because of my interest in one of Inter's player.

Short version:
I don't think we'll have two defensive midfielders and one attacking midfielder in the middle with two wingers. We might play like Mancini did in Inter, which was 4-3-3. The three strikers have few defensive duties and we won't have an attacking midfielder in the middle, we will have three DM/CMs. On top of those we will have three attackers, one of them might sometimes drop a bit below them (to act as attacking midfielder/supporting striker). Call it 4-3-1-2 if you will.

Oh, and: I think this is the reason Ireland and Bellamy are forced out. Ireland's role as attacking midfielder will be taken up by Silva and Robinho, who are much, much better than him with this style of play, it's how they play in their national teams. When we change to 4-3-3 (against weaker teams or if we need to score a goal late) Ireland won't be able to play striker, but Silva and Robinho can do it.
Bellamy's role as winger doesn't exist in this formation. He may be a good:ish striker, but in the end our other alternatives are much better than him. Mancini realized this.


_________
Long version:

During spring Mancini was forced to continue playing Hughes style of 4-5-1, it was hard for him to adapt his real style of playing without having the capable players for it. He changed our way of playing by giving the players new instructions, but in the end the formation itself was more or less the same. The player's roles were the same.

In Inter he used to play 4-3-3, but the difference is that he didn't use a attacking midfielder like we did with Hughes (role of Ireland, Elano and sometimes SWP). He used three defensive, creative midfielders.

He tried this here. He put Vieira, Barry and De Jong together as midfielders. We went crazy on here, claiming it was negative and very defensive minded.

The difference with Inter was that they had players like Zanetti, Cambiasso and Vieira (in his prime, or right after). All these three players were DM's, but also had a lot of creativity and determination, specially Cambiasso.

Old Vieira, Barry and specially De Jong all lack creativity. So basically we had three capable DMs who all, at best, could pass the ball to the sides. Never forward. Cambiasso and Zanetti, in comparison, did beautiful crosses for Inter and scored goals by braking forward. We failed, because the CMs couldn't support the attackers good enough. This forced Bellamy, Johnson and Tevez/Adebayor to do it all themself without the support of the midfielders.

So basically with the signings of Yaya and Milner he now has more creative CMs who also are ready to play defensively.

Thanks to three strong CMs we can have three really offensive players on top, three strikers instead of one strikers and two wingers (Johnson - Tevez - Bellamy).

Basically, what I'm saying is that we may not play with Silva as our AM, with Yaya and De Jong covering him up. I think we'll play Yaya, Milner and De Jong as midfielders with Silva acting as striker.

As I said, this might have been obvious, but everywhere I look on these forums people's line-ups looks like this:
-------De Jong - Yaya
Johnson --------------- Silva
------------ Tevez
-------------Adebayor

With Tevez being close to supporting Adebayor, but in a free role. I think that's wrong.

We played like this against Valencia in the first 30 minutes:
Hart
Richards - Boateng - Kompany - Kolarov
Yaya - De Jong - Barry
Tevez - Adebayor - Silva

(EDIT:
As people have point out below one of the attackers can drop down below them, creating:
Yaya - De Jong - Barry
-------Silva
Tevez - Adebayor)

To me, it looks very similar to what Inter play. Plain 4-3-3. (EDIT: 4-3-1-2 if you will)

Anyway, moving on from the midfielders. That leaves the three attackers. Basically, last year Bellamy and Johnson was forced to run straight down as normal side midfielders to defend. Basically we switched over to 4-5-1 when defending. I don't think they'll be as defensive minded this season, because one of the CMs will go out and cover for them on the sides. That will give Robinho and Silva both the chance to play like they do in their national teams. They will have much more space to do what they want.

I think we've earlier, in America, have played like this but with the new players out on holiday we couldn't really play it correctly. I think that's why we didn't perform well, because once again we had non-creative CMs.

Jo, acting in Tevez role, ran down and covered on the right side but never as defensive as Bellamy and Johnson was last year. (Few) People claimed he was lazy but I don't think he was supposed to go as deep. He was acting as a part of three strikers.
 
Re: Is Mancini adopting his Inter tactics? [Tactics talk]

I also followed inter because of Zlatan.

And i agree with everyhing you said! PPL who blame mancini for negative tactics are those who never seen him in action. Inter played damn good entertaining football under mancini, we saw it in the valencia game, all 3 of our "defensive" midfielders where around their box, GB scored yaya and de jong had their shots and was up there.

Mancini are building his team with a tactics in mind, and im damn glad we have him
 
Re: Is Mancini adopting his Inter tactics? [Tactics talk]

Good post. However from what I saw at Inter (admittedly not as much as you) the system was thus:

----------Cambiasso----------

----Zanetti-----------Vieira---

----------Stankovic----------

------Ibra------------Adriano

Again from what I saw the front 3 was very fluid, sometimes Ibra would drop deep, sometimes Adriano would drift out wide etc. but on the whole it was a 4-1-2-1-2, or perhaps put more simply a narrow diamond shape.

Now the only time we played our full strength side was against Valencia I think we can all agree. To start with the midfield looked like De jong in the Cambiasso role i.e. the sitting midfielder, Yaya and Barry either side (I'd assume Milner would come in for Barry) and Silva just behind Tevez and Adebayor in a free role, drifting to both flanks so that he was difficult to man mark. However due to the fluidity of the CT, EA, and DS the system could easily be transferred into a 4-3-3 for a few minutes, although I think overusing this would limit Tevez as in my view he is not at his best on the right of a 3, and Silva is more effective behind 2 strikers as his former coach said on Saturday. It will be interesting to see how Adam Johnson fits into the team when he plays, I think in some games Roberto will switch to a 4-3-3 with a front 3 of AJ, DS, and one of the strikers we have, perhaps in an away game where we will play on the counter.

All in all I think the 'narrow diamond' with the full backs bombing on (we finally do have good attacking full backs!) will be the most used system, however Mancini does preach versatility, and that will stand us in good stead particularly in 2 legged European ties.
 
Re: Is Mancini adopting his Inter tactics? [Tactics talk]

Agree, likely to start season with a flexible 4-3-3.

Full-backs:
Both to provide attacking width because of narrow middle three, cover from RM and LM.

Midfield:
RM: Yaya Toure/Milner/Zabaleta
LM:Barry/Milner
Defensive Midfield: DeJong/Ibbrahim
Where DM not required play Milner in middle

Attack:
Silva behind front two
Tevez, Silva behind front one

Tactical switch:
Use SWP and Johnson to provide width.

Under previous formations our full backs were left exposed by failure of right/left wing to provide cover - at various times Petrov, Robinho etc.
 
Re: Is Mancini adopting his Inter tactics? [Tactics talk]

I can see parallels just in his signings.

Kolarov = Maicon (except on the other side obviously)
Boateng = Chivu (i.e. can play all across defence and defensive midfield)
Toure = Vieira
Milner = Stankovic
Silva = Pizzaro/Figo
Balotelli = Balotelli
 
Re: Is Mancini adopting his Inter tactics? [Tactics talk]

zeven:
Hehe, I followed them because of Zlatan too.

This realization is getting me so much buzzing, because if this is correct it means:
* We now have three strikers. Basically we will be able to play Tevez, Adebayor and Silva/Robinho together without being scared of Robinho and Tevez complaining about having defensive duty. It will also explain why we have so many attackers in the squad right now.

* It finally explains why we are selling Ireland and Bellamy. I couldn't get my head around it, but now I get it.

* It explains why we are getting Milner, and that he'll be able to play the exact role he's so good at.

Solihull Samba Boys:
Yes, I remember them playing like that too. I think he used the tactics I mentioned above against weaker teams, and that tactic against better one's.

Cambiasso might have had a bit more defensive role than Zanetti and Vieira, that is correct. I think then De Jong will take over that role.

I think you found the important word there, versatility. It explains his love to Zabaleta, Silva and Milner. With players like that we will fast be able to change between 4-3-3 and "4-1-2-1-2".

Actually, it's funny: Zabaleta has the exact same positions as Zanetti. Right back, left back or central midfield. He doesn't have his abilities though. But Mancini seem to love him.

But you said two things there. Tevez, and Johnson. I agree, it may be an issue. Hopefully Tevez will co-op with it, he did it sometimes with the Argentinian national team and had no problem with it.

Adam Johnson though. He was only let on late on against Valencia and may not play as an important part this season as we thought, since his role as winger isn't used much in these tactics. Hopefully he'll be able to transform a bit to that attacking midfielder role.

I may have been mistaken. Maybe we will play with an attacking midfielder. BUT, in Mancini's team, he will have incredibly much responsibilities. He won't be able to rely on his CMs, he will need to show tons of creativity. Maybe Mancini didn't think Ireland could handle that role. Specially not when we have players like Silva and Robinho who can.
 
Re: Is Mancini adopting his Inter tactics? [Tactics talk]

Outrun said:
zeven:
Hehe, I followed them because of Zlatan too.

This realization is getting me so much buzzing, because if this is correct it means:
* We now have three strikers. Basically we will be able to play Tevez, Adebayor and Silva/Robinho together without being scared of Robinho and Tevez complaining about having defensive duty. It will also explain why we have so many attackers in the squad right now.

* It finally explains why we are selling Ireland and Bellamy. I couldn't get my head around it, but now I get it.

* It explains why we are getting Milner, and that he'll be able to play the exact role he's so good at.

Solihull Samba Boys:
Yes, I remember them playing like that too. I think he used the tactics I mentioned above against weaker teams, and that tactic against better one's.

Cambiasso might have had a bit more defensive role than Zanetti and Vieira, that is correct. I think then De Jong will take over that role.

I think you found the important word there, versatility. It explains his love to Zabaleta, Silva and Milner. With players like that we will fast be able to change between 4-3-3 and "4-1-2-1-2".

Actually, it's funny: Zabaleta has the exact same positions as Zanetti. Right back, left back or central midfield. He doesn't have his abilities though. But Mancini seem to love him.

But you said two things there. Tevez, and Johnson. I agree, it may be an issue. Hopefully Tevez will co-op with it, he did it sometimes with the Argentinian national team and had no problem with it.

Adam Johnson though. He was only let on late on against Valencia and may not play as an important part this season as we thought, since his role as winger isn't used much in these tactics. Hopefully he'll be able to transform a bit to that attacking midfielder role.

I may have been mistaken. Maybe we will play with an attacking midfielder. BUT, in Mancini's team, he will have incredibly much responsibilities. He won't be able to rely on his CMs, he will need to show tons of creativity. Maybe Mancini didn't think Ireland could handle that role. Specially not when we have players like Silva and Robinho who can.

What I forgot to mention as that Roberto seems to like 'all-rounders' such as Zanetti, Milner, Tevez and especially Yaya Touré, players who can defend, tackle, create, score, and who are very positionally savvy. To me, Ireland in his 08/09 form was all of the above except positionally savvy, which is why I think Mancini feels he is surplus to requirements.
 
Re: Is Mancini adopting his Inter tactics? [Tactics talk]

What's with this intelligent football chat on Bluemoon? no mention of Balti pies, barms, muffins or falling down in p**s?

I'm off to the Marco Pierre White thread...those boys know what a football forum is all about.
 
Re: Is Mancini adopting his Inter tactics? [Tactics talk]

NewbBlue said:
Good thread.

Definitely. Yet this thread will get less responses than the daily 'had an argument with a rag on facebook LOL' thread.

This thread has really got me thinking though, and I think the rotation system will be easier to employ than most non-City fans think, for example in Europe if we are defending a 2-0 lead in the second leg of a tie, Mancini could play Yaya, Nigel, and Gareth together as a central midfield 3. However against Blackpool at home for example we probably would not need De Jong, and therefore we could employ a 4-2-3-1 with Milner and Yaya as the '2' and any combination of Johnson/Silva/SWP/Tevez/Mario/Robinho as the '3' with any of Adebayor, Tevez, Mario, or a potential new signing (Ibra?) as the '1'. It will be difficult to keep everyone happy but the great managers of the great teams of the past have, like Wenger with Henry, Bergkamp, Reyes, Van Persie and Wiltord, but they were all versatile, which I think will be the key to our success.
 

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