Is Mancini adapting his Inter tactics? [Tactics talk]

[Andouble]

<a class="postlink" href="http://www.guardian.co.uk/football/chalkboards" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;">http://www.guardian.co.uk/football/chalkboards</a>

 

[Outrun]

Here's the zonalmarking report on the SPurs match:
<a class="postlink" href="http://www.zonalmarking.net/2011/08/28/tottenham-1-5-man-city-dzeko/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;">http://www.zonalmarking.net/2011/08/28/ ... ity-dzeko/</a>

Roberto confirmed in this interview:
<a class="postlink" href="http://mcfc.co.uk/Video/Interviews/Mancini-on-Nasri" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;">http://mcfc.co.uk/Video/Interviews/Mancini-on-Nasri</a>

That Nasri will be used both as CM and winger. Silva, on the other hand, is solely a winger. Hopefully people will stop writing that we'll play him above Yaya and De Jong then.

-- 24 Aug 2011, 21:59 --

The best guess would be employing three attacking midfielders like this:

Silva -- Aguero -- Nasri

Nasri will play the same way as Silva but more central. Silva, as usual comes deep to collect the ball, but drifts wide. Aguero doesn't come down as deep, so he will act more like a second striker to Dzeko.


They will be supported by 2 defensive mids:

NDJ -- Yaya

They will continue to do what they do best, Yaya might revert to a more 'passer' role with the occasional license to steamroll forward.


With the absence of wings, the full backs have the responsibility to come forward often like they have been doing all along.


There, my guess:

NDJ -- Yaya
Silva -- Aguero -- Nasri
Dzeko

Sounds very offensively minded. Silva won't track back and neither did Nasri in Arsenal (when he was a winger), so I doubt that would work in PL. Maybe against poor teams in the cups, but not PL.

With Aguero as attacking midfielder we'll be very thin in the middle, since neither Nasri and Silva will track back and help out. Judging by the first two matches this season, the wingers spend very little time backtracking. I mean, look at our corners - all three stay up. That's why the CM's are VERY Important, and playing Aguero there isn't the answer. Big work rate (Aguero) doesn't mean you automatically position yourself well, and even though Aguero might run around forever it still means the opposition will just pass themselves through.

I still think he'll continue playing Barry/Milner - De Jong - Yaya in the midfield. Nasri aswell, but as CM he'll have to focus on both backtracking and offense (like Yaya did last season).

Seriously, have you ever watched Silva play for City?

We must have spent 5-6 pages of this thread discussing his free role, so yes, i'm aware of his role. Its one thing to have one on à free role, and another to have FOUR players on it. How would it look if we had four players running around like Silva? As soon as we lost the ball, all positions would be in chaos.

Love that we have Silva for that role, what a player.

If you meant his defense capabilities, I fully explained myself in a post on the same page. It was based on his role, that the wingers don't have the responsibility to track back as much as the CM's.

I saw this article on the match, it explains how important it is to have CM:s who are fully defensively capable:

Conclusions From Spurs 1 Man City 5

We can't decide whether Harry Redknapp really is that tactically inept or whether he was making a point. City are frightening but Spurs could have avoided a mauling...

* Either Harry Redknapp is even more tactically incompetent than previously thought or he was so intent on showing Daniel Levy just how much he needs Scott Parker and/or Lassana Diarra that he was willing to expose his Tottenham side to an absolute mauling. There can be no other explanation for picking a powder-puff central midfield pairing of Niko Kranjcar and Luka Modric against the most frightening attacking quartet in the Premier League.

* Redknapp had certainly set up his side to be embarrassed by City with his pre-match comments that Manchester City have a better squad than Barcelona. You can imagine him throwing up his hands and saying "what can I do? They've spent millions". Well, what you could have done is picked Tom Huddlestone or even Jake Livermore in the centre of midfield to give your defenders a helping hand rather than expose them to the frightening movement of David Silva, Samir Nasri, Sergio Aguero and Edin Dzeko.

* City were nominally in a 4-2-3-1 but the front four were happy to interchange and swap positions - when Dzeko ventured wide then there were at least two of the other three in the box. Eventually the combination of short passing (it's been a very noticeable feature of this nascent season) and movement befuddled an exposed Tottenham defence and they were breached.

* Nasri managed only one assist in last season's Premier League for Arsenal. In his first 90 minutes in a City shirt, he had claimed a hat-trick of assists. His pass completion rate was a quite phenomenal 97% - away at a team with (fading) ambitions of a top-four finish. Just as Ashley Young has raised his game since joining Manchester United, will Nasri become truly world-class while playing alongside players of a higher calibre?

* Just over 12 months ago, City parked a bus at white Hart Lane and only the heroics of Joe Hart garnered them a point. There was no sign of a bus this time around - you will find no clearer sign of Tottenham's regression and City's accelerating ambition. They started sluggishly (just as they had in the Community Shield) but not defensively in north London. The shackles have been thrown away - until they visit Old Trafford, at least.

* Even before his goals, Dzeko was clearly enjoying himself. The awkwardness of last season has disappeared and he does not look out of place in the company of Aguero, Silva and Nasri. He is keeping Carlos Tevez out of the team entirely on merit - those who pointed out that his haul climbed from nine to 36 goals between his first and second seasons at Wolfsburg are seeing the same pattern being repeated at City. The boy might take some settling, but boy when he settles...

* There was quite a contrast between the perfection of Dzeko's headed second and Peter Crouch's headed miss. While Dzeko looks less and less awkward, Crouch can only look more and more so.

* Gareth Bale's volleyed cross for that chance in the 39th minute was his first moment of genuine quality in the game. For the second time in a week, the Welshman has looked far from comfortable in exalted company. He was gifted one chance in the 26th minute but sliced over with a shot that sums up his season so far. The Guardian's trumpeted exclusive that Inter Milan would move for Bale this summer looks even more ridiculous now.

* Roberto Mancini's decision to field Gael Clichy and Pablo Zabaleta at full-back was his one concession to the danger of Tottenham's wide men. His decision was entirely justified with the ease with which both were kept quiet. Clichy may be defensively vulnerable but Aaron Lennon lacks the ingenuity to test anything but a full-back's pace on current form. And the one thing that Clichy has in abundance is pace.

* Neither Modric nor Kranjcar played badly - an indeed the latter did not misplace a pass for the opening half-hour - but neither did they unduly test Gareth Barry and Yaya Toure, who seemed relatively content to let them have the ball early in the game. As long as the ball was in the middle of the park, it was unlikely that Crouch was going to cause them too many problems.

* Meanwhile, City's front four was causing all sorts of problems for Tottenham's defence. Younes Kaboul was guilty for City's opening two goals - allowing Dzeko to get first in front and then away from him - while Michael Dawson will not want to see Aguero's goal again. There's nothing like a speedy, tricky, powerful striker to make an English centre-half look like a cumbersome carthorse.

* As culpable as both were, you had to feel sorry for them - Redknapp did them absolutely no favours by picking a pair of playmakers in central midfield. At the risk of labouring a point, what on earth was Redknapp thinking? They were always going to struggle against City, but a mauling could have been prevented by a better tactician.

* Is there anyone outside north London not hoping Tottenham labour to two points from eight games. 'How can anyone get only two points from eight games?' will be the cry.

<a class="postlink" href="http://www.football365.com/f365-says/7135332/Conclusions-From-Spurs-1-Man-City-5" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;">http://www.football365.com/f365-says/71 ... Man-City-5</a>

And Zonalmarking:

Here, however, it worked quite well because Spurs had no true holding player – in fact, they had nothing like a holding player. Tom Huddlestone was only fit enough for the bench, and whilst Luka Modric and Kranjcar did a decent job in possession, they left too much space behind them. With Silva and Nasri both able to move into that position (which produced a good chance for Silva after seven minutes) and Aguero dropping deep, Tottenham were always likely to struggle in that zone.

Sounds very offensively minded. Silva won't track back and neither did Nasri in Arsenal (when he was a winger), so I doubt that would work in PL. Maybe against poor teams in the cups, but not PL.

With Aguero as attacking midfielder we'll be very thin in the middle, since neither Nasri and Silva will track back and help out. Judging by the first two matches this season, the wingers spend very little time backtracking. I mean, look at our corners - all three stay up. That's why the CM's are VERY Important, and playing Aguero there isn't the answer. Big work rate (Aguero) doesn't mean you automatically position yourself well, and even though Aguero might run around forever it still means the opposition will just pass themselves through.

I still think he'll continue playing Barry/Milner - De Jong - Yaya in the midfield. Nasri aswell, but as CM he'll have to focus on both backtracking and offense (like Yaya did last season).

If you haven't been watching City, please do so now, and have a match just based on watching Silva. He does track back, alot.

And if you are concerned about tracking back, that's is the reason why we employ NDJ in midfield. NDJ rarely attacks, if not never, thus, when we fall back on our defence, there's a man covering the pitch.

Compared to employing Barry and Yaya. I see Barry more as a 'dictator' of passes rather than an 'anchorman', thus, Barry may sometimes leave a spot open. As for Yaya, needless to say, his main asset is attacking, thus, like a full back, Yaya has to pick opportunities on when to attack, and when he does, one of the attackers, I presume have to fall a little deeper to cover for him.

Believe it or not, NDJ's here to stay.

Of course, I'm not saying that because of his passion, commitment, etc. If so, we would be starting Zaba over Clichy anyday. We are arguing NDJ's case, because of NDJ's role in the team. He is a part of our defensive lynchpin and with him around, the defense line is much more shielded and protected.

I guess people just forget why we cry for Nigel when he was missing for just two to three matches last season.

See above, it's part of his role to not track back as much as CM's. I'm aware he CAN track back, but wingers rarely have the instructions to backtrack as much as for example Yaya. The wingers follow back as much as they can, but Barry/Yaya/De Jong are marking players at all times, trying to break up play, making big tackles. Basically having bigger defensive roles. Wingers are mostly there to cut off passes, you could say. They're rarely master tacklers.

And I agree about De Jong that he's a very important player, that was what my post on last page was about. All I said was that he doesn't need to be used against low-level teams like Swansea, which was shown on opening day.

 

[fatbloke]

I thought it was a very rough 4-2-2-2 with Toure and Barry as the holding players. Attacking wise Silva was playing from the right but given the freedom to roam and Milner was playing from the left but also free to roam. I think when Nasri eventually comes he'll play from the left instead of Milner but him and Silva will just interchange and it'll make us even better going forward. Big Nige will probably comeback into one of the holding roles, more than likely instead of Gaz Baz. I think Mancini is showing more trust in Silva and Yaya this season and giving the players a bit more responsibility to decide when to run and when to stay back.

------------------Hart
Richards - Kompany - Lescott - Clichy
------------De Jong - Yaya
------Silva ----------------Nasri
--------------Kun - Dzeko

Other than Zabba in for Richards (more disciplined defensively to cope with Bale) I think I got it spot on. We look amazing and the interchanging of Nasri, Silva and Aguero is frightening.

 

[1.618034]

I was going to have a go at comparing Nasri's passing from yesterday with an Arsenal performance last season but The Guardian have done it themselves today...


[bigimg]http://img42.imageshack.us/img42/6995/picture11ks.png[/bigimg]

City Allow Nasri To Roam

Samir Nasri made a wonderful start to his Manchester City career with a great performance in the 5-1 win over Tottenham Hotspur. He misplaced just two passes in open play, and was credited with three assists – as many as he claimed for Arsenal in the entire 2010-11 season.

Nasri played a different role for City – simultaneously more central during build-up play and wider when trying to play key passes. Compare his performance at White Hart Lane to his display there with Arsenal back in April, and it is clear he has more license to drift across to the centre circle to pick up the ball.

However, his first two assists came from an area he never ventured into for Arsenal. He got into wider positions down the left, checked back on to his right foot, then crossed from beyond the edge of the penalty box for Edin Dzeko's two first half goals.

That's what happens when you've actually got some strikers Arsene!<br /><br />-- Tue Oct 04, 2011 7:16 pm --<br /><br />Interesting piece from the Guardian Chalkboards on our recent pressing game and how we're breaking down defensive teams now...

Manchester City are becoming used to playing against opponents who sit deep in the final 25 metres of the pitch and soak up pressure, in attempt to deny City space in the attacking third. As good displays against Everton last weekend and Blackburn on Saturday have shown, City have both the quality and the patience to break down this type of team.

It means City playing high up the pitch, so they can be left open to rapid counter-attacks from the opposition, as Napoli demonstrated with Edinson Cavani's goal on the first matchday of the Champions League. City have gone from being regarded as a defensive-minded side who pack the team with holding midfielders, to a flashy creative side who push up and leave space in behind, and they're still adjusting to that defensively.

With this in mind, it's interesting to see how often City have pre-emptively broken up opposition attacks with fouls high up the pitch in their last two games – giving them time to drop deep and regain their defensive shape.


[bigimg]http://img40.imageshack.us/img40/8456/picture5yr.png[/bigimg]

 

[lostgalaxy]

I like the way we press teams. Pressing without intimidating [like Bayen] or error provoking [like MU].

We don't press like Barcelona either. They're a team who try to monopoly the game, which's exhausting for both sides.

We just play positive and believe goals will come naturally. Balotelli's last goal against Blackburn was a perfect example of the style.

Effortless. Roger Federer like.

But it takes a lot of efforts to make it consistent.

 

[Outrun]

Read another thread and thought about something, regarding how we have been prone to concede goals in counter-attacks. It was visible against Napoli, but also in all our European matches and against United. Mancini himself has complained about it, just a couple of weeks ago. It's obvious Ferguson is focusing on counter-attacks against us, just like many other European clubs.

Roberto did well last night to avoid counter-attacks, and there was one interesting change in tactics. Nigel was way further up the pitch than Barry. It resulted in Barry sitting deep, protecting counter-attacks. While Nigel is no Richards, he still got more pace than Barry. When Porto countered, Nigel could run back with Barry covering at the back. Nigel is also fantastic at sliding tackles from behind, getting even bigger reach.

We gotta handle it better if we want to succeed in Champions League. Anyone have any clue why it keeps happening, and how we are gonna protect us against it? For example replace Barry for next season (would be harsh, he's important atm), or put Yaya in De Jong's place, or do as we did last night?

De Rossi isn't on the table any more, but he could've given us a bit more pace and would probably have replaced either Barry or Nigel.