Is Mancini adapting his Inter tactics? [Tactics talk]

[Blue Elmo]

Re: Is Mancini adopting his Inter tactics? [Tactics talk]

I have been thinking this as the formation for a long time and it is very clever on mancinis part he has it all covered . Lacks width and thats why he has his now very attacking fullbacks who can defend aswell which is very hard to find these days . His midfield is the key to his success I think milner will come in for one of the players , but I struggle to see barry being dropped from the team tbh . If this is the formation we play at the spuds , I will be very happy , can't think of a better one in all honesty . I hope though we do change it throughout the season unless that team is playing fantastically well as I think AJ has to be in the team at some point as he is a very very good player . I feel better about saturday as tevez , arguably the key player in thsi team , didnt play for argentina . That will give us a bit more energy throughout the game . playing with 3 midfielders should give us the edge over the spuds . they seem to play a 4-2-2-4 . They have the midfielders in huddlestone/palacios and modric . With the 3 midfielders in there we should be able to dominate posession and hit them on the break as they have very attack minded wingers . keep out tottenhams wingers and you shut tottenham down , they rarely play through the middle unless modric gets involved . I believe with this formation we can beat the spuds , but to me it all depends on ade , if he is up for it then we should have a great chance as on his day he is unplayable e.g arsenal spuds at the lane where he scored that great volley . Brilliant tactics by mancini if this is true but if we adopt 4-4-2 which i highly doubt but is a possibility then we will get beat . We went to chelsea with a similar formation and turned em over so bring these lot on

 

[Outrun]

Re: Is Mancini adopting his Inter tactics? [Tactics talk]

zeven:
Hehe, I followed them because of Zlatan too.

This realization is getting me so much buzzing, because if this is correct it means:
* We now have three strikers. Basically we will be able to play Tevez, Adebayor and Silva/Robinho together without being scared of Robinho and Tevez complaining about having defensive duty. It will also explain why we have so many attackers in the squad right now.

* It finally explains why we are selling Ireland and Bellamy. I couldn't get my head around it, but now I get it.

* It explains why we are getting Milner, and that he'll be able to play the exact role he's so good at.

Solihull Samba Boys:
Yes, I remember them playing like that too. I think he used the tactics I mentioned above against weaker teams, and that tactic against better one's.

Cambiasso might have had a bit more defensive role than Zanetti and Vieira, that is correct. I think then De Jong will take over that role.

I think you found the important word there, versatility. It explains his love to Zabaleta, Silva and Milner. With players like that we will fast be able to change between 4-3-3 and "4-1-2-1-2".

Actually, it's funny: Zabaleta has the exact same positions as Zanetti. Right back, left back or central midfield. He doesn't have his abilities though. But Mancini seem to love him.

But you said two things there. Tevez, and Johnson. I agree, it may be an issue. Hopefully Tevez will co-op with it, he did it sometimes with the Argentinian national team and had no problem with it.

Adam Johnson though. He was only let on late on against Valencia and may not play as an important part this season as we thought, since his role as winger isn't used much in these tactics. Hopefully he'll be able to transform a bit to that attacking midfielder role.

I may have been mistaken. Maybe we will play with an attacking midfielder. BUT, in Mancini's team, he will have incredibly much responsibilities. He won't be able to rely on his CMs, he will need to show tons of creativity. Maybe Mancini didn't think Ireland could handle that role. Specially not when we have players like Silva and Robinho who can.

What I forgot to mention as that Roberto seems to like 'all-rounders' such as Zanetti, Milner, Tevez and especially Yaya Touré, players who can defend, tackle, create, score, and who are very positionally savvy. To me, Ireland in his 08/09 form was all of the above except positionally savvy, which is why I think Mancini feels he is surplus to requirements.

True. And when we change to 4-3-3, Ireland won't be able to step it up as a striker. He's a midfielder. Both Robinho and Silva are able to play as strikers though. Basically Ireland won't be able to be used against the poorer teams because his role doesn't exist in 4-3-3.

Do you remember how often they changed to 4-3-3, or am I mixing stuff up? I think they played it, no?

Agree, likely to start season with a flexible 4-3-3.

Full-backs:
Both to provide attacking width because of narrow middle three, cover from RM and LM.

Midfield:
RM: Yaya Toure/Milner/Zabaleta
LM:Barry/Milner
Defensive Midfield: DeJong/Ibbrahim
Where DM not required play Milner in middle

Attack:
Silva behind front two
Tevez, Silva behind front one

Tactical switch:
Use SWP and Johnson to provide width.

Under previous formations our full backs were left exposed by failure of right/left wing to provide cover - at various times Petrov, Robinho etc.

Exactly, you're right, how we were left exposed. And, I think we also never had any real clue what the three midfielders were supposed to do. It was like: "Well... De Jong take the defensive duties... Barry is in the middle... and Ireland is in front of them!". Like they played 3 in a row, going from DM - CM - Am. It sounds, looking back, very unstable, and it may explain why we often were overrun by the oppositions two midfielders. Basically we had a line of three players vertically which they could run through easy. Now we'll have a horizontal line, almost.

With this:
"Silva behind front two
Tevez, Silva behind front one"

With the second sentence, do you mean like:
Tevez - Adebayor - Silva

Which may change to:
Tevez - Silva
-----Adebayor
?

 

[Nevizade]

Re: Is Mancini adopting his Inter tactics? [Tactics talk]

I have been thinking this as the formation for a long time and it is very clever on mancinis part he has it all covered . Lacks width and thats why he has his now very attacking fullbacks who can defend aswell which is very hard to find these days . His midfield is the key to his success I think milner will come in for one of the players , but I struggle to see barry being dropped from the team tbh . If this is the formation we play at the spuds , I will be very happy , can't think of a better one in all honesty . I hope though we do change it throughout the season unless that team is playing fantastically well as I think AJ has to be in the team at some point as he is a very very good player . I feel better about saturday as tevez , arguably the key player in thsi team , didnt play for argentina . That will give us a bit more energy throughout the game . playing with 3 midfielders should give us the edge over the spuds . they seem to play a 4-2-2-4 . They have the midfielders in huddlestone/palacios and modric . With the 3 midfielders in there we should be able to dominate posession and hit them on the break as they have very attack minded wingers . keep out tottenhams wingers and you shut tottenham down , they rarely play through the middle unless modric gets involved . I believe with this formation we can beat the spuds , but to me it all depends on ade , if he is up for it then we should have a great chance as on his day he is unplayable e.g arsenal spuds at the lane where he scored that great volley . Brilliant tactics by mancini if this is true but if we adopt 4-4-2 which i highly doubt but is a possibility then we will get beat . We went to chelsea with a similar formation and turned em over so bring these lot on

2 good points in there are the attacking full backs which as you so rightly say are very tough to find, in fact I'd go as far as saying Kolarov is in the top 5 left backs in the world with only perhaps Ashley Cole, Evra (sorry), Lahm ahead of him, he's certainly at least on par with the likes of Clichy and Coentrao anyway. The second is the midfielders, and the central midfield 3. With this midfield alone we could dominate most, if not all sides in the league in the middle of the park, especially when you consider we could have the full backs, or more aptly, wing backs in the wide midfield berths whilst going forward, added to Silva and Tevez drifting and dropping deep, at times we could have what is essentially a midfield 6, and with the quality and mobility of the players in that 6 we will be very difficult to beat.<br /><br />-- Thu Aug 12, 2010 6:05 pm --<br /><br />

What I forgot to mention as that Roberto seems to like 'all-rounders' such as Zanetti, Milner, Tevez and especially Yaya Touré, players who can defend, tackle, create, score, and who are very positionally savvy. To me, Ireland in his 08/09 form was all of the above except positionally savvy, which is why I think Mancini feels he is surplus to requirements.

True. And when we change to 4-3-3, Ireland won't be able to step it up as a striker. He's a midfielder. Both Robinho and Silva are able to play as strikers though. Basically Ireland won't be able to be used against the poorer teams because his role doesn't exist in 4-3-3.

Do you remember how often they changed to 4-3-3, or am I mixing stuff up? I think they played it, no?

Agree, likely to start season with a flexible 4-3-3.

Full-backs:
Both to provide attacking width because of narrow middle three, cover from RM and LM.

Midfield:
RM: Yaya Toure/Milner/Zabaleta
LM:Barry/Milner
Defensive Midfield: DeJong/Ibbrahim
Where DM not required play Milner in middle

Attack:
Silva behind front two
Tevez, Silva behind front one

Tactical switch:
Use SWP and Johnson to provide width.

Under previous formations our full backs were left exposed by failure of right/left wing to provide cover - at various times Petrov, Robinho etc.

Exactly, you're right, how we were left exposed. And, I think we also never had any real clue what the three midfielders were supposed to do. It was like: "Well... De Jong take the defensive duties... Barry is in the middle... and Ireland is in front of them!". Like they played 3 in a row, going from DM - CM - Am. It sounds, looking back, very unstable, and it may explain why we often were overrun by the oppositions two midfielders. Basically we had a line of three players vertically which they could run through easy. Now we'll have a horizontal line, almost.

With this:
"Silva behind front two
Tevez, Silva behind front one"

With the second sentence, do you mean like:
Tevez - Adebayor - Silva

Which may change to:
Tevez - Silva
-----Adebayor
?

They did play 4-3-3 on a number of occasions, with Figo, Solari or even Suazo often filling one of the wide forward spots. So I can definitely see it being employed in a similar vein as we did last year away at Chelsea on occasions, but it's my personal view that the majority of players we have fit into a 4-1-2-1-2 formation almost perfectly.

 

[Joga Bonito]

Re: Is Mancini adopting his Inter tactics? [Tactics talk]

Well said lads, got me looking forward to Saturday!!

 

[sam the drummer]

Re: Is Mancini adopting his Inter tactics? [Tactics talk]

I agree with SSB, I think he is trying to use that formation from his Inter days. Personally I like it and we definitely have the right players to play it well now.

Also against Valencia Tevez and Silva looked to drop really deep and we were playing the christmas tree formation! I'm not sure if Ade can play upfront on his own, maybe Balo can and that's why Mancini wants him?
I think Barry still has a place in the team with this formation as well. He is a very good passer of the ball, he just lacks any pace.

The only negative to this formation for me is the lack of Johnson. I really like him, he brings a lot to the team, but I can't see where he'll fit in unless he plays in the middle or when we change formation.

------------Hart--------------
-Boateng--(CB)--Kompany-Kolarov-
----------De Jong-------------
---Yaya-------------Milner-----
-----------Silva---------------
-------Tevez---Ade------------

Looks good to me. Not sure about where Boateng will play and who the other CB will be. Barry can swap with Milner and Balo/Ade possibly.

 

[Outrun]

Re: Is Mancini adopting his Inter tactics? [Tactics talk]

I made an illustration to show it, did I get it right?

Basically the arrows act just like in video games, that they run offensively and defensively. I know it's not that simple, the way we play, but that's not the point. It's just there to give an overview of how we play.

Good thread.

Definitely. Yet this thread will get less responses than the daily 'had an argument with a rag on facebook LOL' thread.

I know. But, I'm glad there are some people interested to discuss this, so it would be interesting to keep this discussion going over the season. First to see how we play on Saturday.

 

[pee dubya]

Re: Is Mancini adopting his Inter tactics? [Tactics talk]

I agree with that line-up, although Tevez would perhaps operate in the same space as Silva, with Ade as the spearhead. Sort of like a 3 man attack when we have the ball, but a 4-3-2-1 when we don't.

The other way i thought we might go with at times is 2 holding midfielders (Toure and NDJ/Milner), then a line of 3, Silva - Tevez - Balotelli, and Ade up front. Back-up line would be Johnson - Robinho - SWP. So many of the players are interchangeable, it would be very difficult to deal with for defences (and predict the exact line-up correctly).

 

[Shaelumstash]

Re: Is Mancini adopting his Inter tactics? [Tactics talk]

Fantastic thread, refreshing to have an intelligent debate about football on here. I agree with the OP, and what the majority are saying on here, it looks like we will be playing with a solid midfield 3, a fluid attacking 3 (including one target man) and 2 attacking full-backs.

A lot of what Mancini has been doing over the summer now makes sense when you take this shape in to account.
*Bellamy has no position in this system, which is perhaps one of the reasons why he may be leaving
*Same goes for Ireland, for this system to work, you need one holding player and 2 hard working, tough tackling box to box midfielders. He simply doesn't fit in to the system.
*Milner is ideally suited to playing in this midfield system as while possibly not spectacular at anything, he is a good all rounder and has much more energy than Barry. I think he is over-priced but I would struggle to think of another available player who is more suited to this system.
*Adam Johnson was playing centrally in a lot of the pre-season games and I couldn't figure out why. It now makes sense that Mancini was possibly trying him out to see if he is capable of playing in the role Silva will start in.
*Bringing back Robinho makes perfect sense when playing this system as he is fantastic when playing in front of a solid midfield and behind a powerful striker. I actually think he has a chance of starting some early season games ahead of Tevez and Silva as he obviously has more match sharpness at the moment.
*We have been criticised for having too many defensive midfielders, but it makes perfect sense to have a depth solid midfielders if we are playing 3 of them.

*I haven't seen enough of Balotelli to be able to pass a considered opinion but from what I know of him it seems he may be capable of offering competition for Adebayor as the number 9, and also capable of playing a more withdrawn role like Tevez. Can any of the posters with a good knowledge of Inter shed any light on this?

 

[Outrun]

Re: Is Mancini adopting his Inter tactics? [Tactics talk]

What I like so much about this tactic is that it's so stable. When Tottenham have the ball, they basically have to pass their way through 7 players who all have good defensive capabilities (the 4 defenders and 3 midfielders).

The interesting thing about it is that you can't play it unless you have a really good team. That's what happened this spring: if the midfielders aren't good enough offensively and defensively, it won't work. Basically we were fine defensively as Barry, De Jong and Vieira are good defensively. We mostly let in goals due to individual mistakes, often caused by our full backs. The result in the end was that we could defend good, but had a hard time keeping possession and had to rely on scoring on counter-attack or through Carlito.

But this year we have midfielders who are capable both offensively and defensively, meaning we should be able to keep possession much better.

When we attack we will have three attackers up front 100% focused on attacking, not spoiling energy on defending/running along the sides á la Bellamy & Johnson. We will also have capable full backs this year, who will help out. Last year we had 3 players who were capable offensively, this year we will have 5 (2 fullbacks and 3 attackers) plus the three midfielders.

If the ball is on the right side, then possibly Yaya will go offense and help out while De Jong and Milner cover behind him. And when the ball moves to the left, Yaya will go defense and Milner will take a step up instead to help Kolarov and the three attackers.

It often felt like when we played under Hughes we much relied on counter-attacks and individual performances to win the games. A solo goal from Tevez etc, or a freekick situation. This year I feel we should be able to dominate possession more, to dictate the tempo which will be important. We will slow the opponent down or ourself put more speed into it, whatever suits us best that match.

I agree with that line-up, although Tevez would perhaps operate in the same space as Silva, with Ade as the spearhead. Sort of like a 3 man attack when we have the ball, but a 4-3-2-1 when we don't.

If you are correct, that should mean that we may be able to play both Silva and Robinho right? If we need to, that is.

Robinho - Silva
-----Tevez

In case Tevez or Adebayor gets injured.

I have been thinking this as the formation for a long time and it is very clever on mancinis part he has it all covered . Lacks width and thats why he has his now very attacking fullbacks who can defend aswell which is very hard to find these days . His midfield is the key to his success I think milner will come in for one of the players , but I struggle to see barry being dropped from the team tbh . If this is the formation we play at the spuds , I will be very happy , can't think of a better one in all honesty . I hope though we do change it throughout the season unless that team is playing fantastically well as I think AJ has to be in the team at some point as he is a very very good player . I feel better about saturday as tevez , arguably the key player in thsi team , didnt play for argentina . That will give us a bit more energy throughout the game . playing with 3 midfielders should give us the edge over the spuds . they seem to play a 4-2-2-4 . They have the midfielders in huddlestone/palacios and modric . With the 3 midfielders in there we should be able to dominate posession and hit them on the break as they have very attack minded wingers . keep out tottenhams wingers and you shut tottenham down , they rarely play through the middle unless modric gets involved . I believe with this formation we can beat the spuds , but to me it all depends on ade , if he is up for it then we should have a great chance as on his day he is unplayable e.g arsenal spuds at the lane where he scored that great volley . Brilliant tactics by mancini if this is true but if we adopt 4-4-2 which i highly doubt but is a possibility then we will get beat . We went to chelsea with a similar formation and turned em over so bring these lot on

Great insight, agree on many points. I think that with Yaya and De Jong both backing Barry up, he may be able to shine more. Before he only had De Jong which left him a bit alone at times.

You say 4-2-2-4, I guess you mean 4-2-4? Does it look like this?
--CM--CM
WG--ST--ST--WG

WG = Winger, ST = Striker

If you're correct it seems like we should be able to hurt them through the middle, like you said. Unfortunately it may also result in our full backs being a bit exposed against their wingers, if our midfielders doesn't go and help them out. But when I watched Inter I often remember Zanetti coming down helping Maicon, so I think Yaya will help out Boateng too (and Barry help Kolarov).

 

[zeven]

Re: Is Mancini adopting his Inter tactics? [Tactics talk]

Outrun, you're spot on,.