Is now the time to consider Mancini's tenure at the club

[GStar]

You're moving your own goalposts. You're dismissing Mourinho based on this season's domestic performance? Even then you've just named 5 that have more managerial experience and sustained silverware to their name than Guardiola.

We'll disagree because Rijkaard's when Ronaldinho was in full flow was far more attractive than this false nine tika taka style.

Pure speculation on when managers are available, they're all available... just like players, they'll all have a price to their club.

You dismissed Guardiola because he didn't win a trophy at Barca last season, so considering the only 2 trophies you must be considering are La Liga and the CL, unless Mourinho wins the CL he'll have failed on the same basis you failed Guardiola.

Rijkaard won 2 La Liga's and a CL, Guardiola won 3 La Liga's and 2 CL's, so Rijkaard played the better football and achieved worse results, right ok...

I didn't move any goalposts, I merely pointed out that the basis you criticise Guardiola can be applied to other managers. Hiddink's club record is pretty mediocre in reality as I showed a few weeks ago, Ancelotti's is good but even he has his failings, just because you've been around longer doesn't make you a better manager. Mancini has failed in Europe, Benitez failed domestically at Liverpool, despite his European success.

I think it's unfair of you to state that Guardiola didn't earn his reputation at Barca, he did like every other manager earns theirs. The experience is a fair point worth considering, but people shouldn't start demeaning his achievements because at the end of the day he took Rijkaard's work, the dream front 4 that were constantly bickering and trying to compete with each other, tore it up and created the greatest club side on earth and helped create the best player in the world by getting rid of the 3 elder superstars and building the team around him, his achievements speak for themselves.

Inexperienced? yes, longevity? doubtful, successful? indisputable, top bracket of managers? absolutely.

I've not dismissed Guardiola. I've said he's hugely over rated given his relateively weak performance with Barca in his final year and n comparison to both his predecessor and his successor, neither of whom are likely to be counted or linked with top European clubs despite performing similar in the same position.

Its impossible to put any kind of coherent response to your points, firstly because you're shifting the posts mid way through your points (comparing one managers domestic experience to another's European experience), secondly your continually replaying back to me my assumptions... which i never said nor made and thirdly if you can't understand how 'good football' doesn't equal 'winning'... may i suggest you either watch Arsenal 3/4 years ago or the Chelsea/Barca CL SF

 

[WNRH]

I actually think Pep is a good Manager - but when I said around 20 pages back in this thread about how he has only managed at one Club and I would be concerned if he got our Managers position I was accused of making a "Lazy" post.

Ha, i actually think the championing of Gaurdiola itself is lazy, i think the recent managers, such as Rijkaard and Vitanova prove that poor managers can make that team not only look god but win silverware too.

The fact Guardiola left them without anything isn't great, the fact he's only ever held one senior management position is worrying and the fact its Barcelona even more so.

Think you are doing Guardiola a disservice there. It's true that anyone can manage Barcelona and win trophies just like winning trophies at Celtic or Rangers does not mean you are a genius or a prodigy but it is the way Guardiola won the trophies that makes him this superstar coach.

He is the one who turned Messi from an inside winger who chipped in with 20 goals a season and the same amount of assists to this monster we see today, the six trophies he won in the same year and the treble has never been done before in Spanish football let alone Barcelona, you might say he had the best player in the world to help him but other managers have had Maradonna, Ronaldinho, Romario, Ronaldo, Rivaldo in their Barca side who all at some stage were the best player in the world.

Barca have only ever won 4 european cups and he won two of them in a four year spell.

His problem now is where ever he goes, if he wants to replicate what he has done at Barca it will take years and patience as he will have to start from scratch.

He has his faults like everyone but he had a major impact in his success at Barca that shouldn't be ignored.

 

[Danielmanc]

I've just had a strange vision in my head of DD biting a pillow with BS behind him shouting Mooooo is something wrong with me?

Neither of them seem to post much after we have won. If we lose or draw to Stoke you'll hear plenty from them though

 

[JoeMercer'sWay]

You're moving your own goalposts. You're dismissing Mourinho based on this season's domestic performance? Even then you've just named 5 that have more managerial experience and sustained silverware to their name than Guardiola.

We'll disagree because Rijkaard's when Ronaldinho was in full flow was far more attractive than this false nine tika taka style.

Pure speculation on when managers are available, they're all available... just like players, they'll all have a price to their club.

You dismissed Guardiola because he didn't win a trophy at Barca last season, so considering the only 2 trophies you must be considering are La Liga and the CL, unless Mourinho wins the CL he'll have failed on the same basis you failed Guardiola.

Rijkaard won 2 La Liga's and a CL, Guardiola won 3 La Liga's and 2 CL's, so Rijkaard played the better football and achieved worse results, right ok...

I didn't move any goalposts, I merely pointed out that the basis you criticise Guardiola can be applied to other managers. Hiddink's club record is pretty mediocre in reality as I showed a few weeks ago, Ancelotti's is good but even he has his failings, just because you've been around longer doesn't make you a better manager. Mancini has failed in Europe, Benitez failed domestically at Liverpool, despite his European success.

I think it's unfair of you to state that Guardiola didn't earn his reputation at Barca, he did like every other manager earns theirs. The experience is a fair point worth considering, but people shouldn't start demeaning his achievements because at the end of the day he took Rijkaard's work, the dream front 4 that were constantly bickering and trying to compete with each other, tore it up and created the greatest club side on earth and helped create the best player in the world by getting rid of the 3 elder superstars and building the team around him, his achievements speak for themselves.

Inexperienced? yes, longevity? doubtful, successful? indisputable, top bracket of managers? absolutely.

I've not dismissed Guardiola. I've said he's hugely over rated given his relateively weak performance with Barca in his final year and n comparison to both his predecessor and his successor, neither of whom are likely to be counted or linked with top European clubs despite performing similar in the same position.

Its impossible to put any kind of coherent response to your points, firstly because you're shifting the posts mid way through your points (comparing one managers domestic experience to another's European experience), secondly your continually replaying back to me my assumptions... which i never said nor made and thirdly if you can't understand how 'good football' doesn't equal 'winning'... may i suggest you either watch Arsenal 3/4 years ago or the Chelsea/Barca CL SF

you're the only one moving the goalposts. You dismiss Guardiola on his lack of experience and think he's overrated because for once after winning La Liga 3 times in a row he finished 2nd to Real Madrid who got 100 points, Barca got 91, so a mediocre showing. Chelsea's lucky but heroic display in the SF was something you can't account but fair play to them but winning the CL twice in 4 years and reaching the semi's the other 2 times shows consistency and class. He also won the Spanish Cup, the Club World Cup, the UEFA Super Cup and the Spanish Super Cup last season, but don't let his trophyless season worry you that much. If you want to compare, Rijkaard's Barca team in his last season finished 3rd on 67 points, and only won half their league matches. Guardiola made a huge improvement.

I don't compare one person's record to another, I point out their weaknesses that in some cases more than cancel out their "experience", seeing as you're so quick to demean Guardiola as he's only managed Barca.

 

[GStar]

Think you are doing Guardiola a disservice there. It's true that anyone can manage Barcelona and win trophies just like winning trophies at Celtic or Rangers does not mean you are a genius or a prodigy but it is the way Guardiola won the trophies that makes him this superstar coach.

He is the one who turned Messi from an inside winger who chipped in with 20 goals a season and the same amount of assists to this monster we see today, the six trophies he won in the same year and the treble has never been done before in Spanish football let alone Barcelona, you might say he had the best player in the world to help him but other managers have had Maradonna, Ronaldinho, Romario, Ronaldo, Rivaldo in their Barca side who all at some stage were the best player in the world.

Barca have only ever won 4 european cups and he won two of them in a four year spell.

His problem now is where ever he goes, if he wants to replicate what he has done at Barca it will take years and patience as he will have to start from scratch.

He has his faults like everyone but he had a major impact in his success at Barca that shouldn't be ignored.

True, i may well be doing him a disservice, but i think it's fair to at least attempt to balance out the overwhelming reputation he seems to have; any PL team who may hire him are doing so with a significant risk.

In a similar vein there's also a strong point that a player of Messi's ability could either have a. naturally developed into that position or b. been good enough to play there to begin with... he's continued to improve this year without Guardiola managing him.

Also take the point about Barca having star players in the past, but have they ever had so many at one time, and with the ability to lay together as they do now?

I agree and as i said to JMW, i'm not dismissing Guariola as a manager full stop, i just think there's much more to being a 'top' manager than what he has shown so far.

A final point, it was Chelsea who 'gambled' on Mourinho after his success with Porto, look what he became with them and after them... there's a chance Guardiola could follow a similar path, i just don't think its guaranteed.

 

[greasedupdeafguy]

I actually think Pep is a good Manager - but when I said around 20 pages back in this thread about how he has only managed at one Club and I would be concerned if he got our Managers position I was accused of making a "Lazy" post.

Ha, i actually think the championing of Gaurdiola itself is lazy, i think the recent managers, such as Rijkaard and Vitanova prove that poor managers can make that team not only look god but win silverware too.

The fact Guardiola left them without anything isn't great, the fact he's only ever held one senior management position is worrying and the fact its Barcelona even more so.

Guardiola was there for half the time Rijkaard was there and won double the trophies.

 

[Davs 19]

I've just had a strange vision in my head of DD biting a pillow with BS behind him shouting Mooooo is something wrong with me?

There's nothing wrong. You're just having to use your imagination as to their whereabouts as they tend not to hang around to long after a positive performance.

Cue the usual insults from DD.

 

[mancityvstoke]

it is quiet from the Mancini doubters though.

Lets be avin you

 

[Oystercatcher28]

Save our Sven.

 

[MCC]

I've just had a strange vision in my head of DD biting a pillow with BS behind him shouting Mooooo is something wrong with me?

Neither of them seem to post much after we have won. If we lose or draw to Stoke you'll hear plenty from them though

The pair of them are too busy wiping their fannies to post anything.