is stephen hawking correct? there is no heaven

[tonea2003]

people who believe shit like this are fucking bellends..fact.

Your choice, your opinion, I respect that, but I disagree, that is all.

I didnt say that mate,
I am genuinely interested in why but have been Exasperated by some rePlies by others I admit

 

[BulgarianPride]

people who believe shit like this are fucking bellends..fact.

Got any scientific proof or evidence?

 

[Sunsh111ne]

Hmmmm this is always a tricky one and after years of some pretty fierce rows with Zin about religion issues I tend to avoid these topics like the plague but sh*t I can't resist!

I don't deny science and I don't deny that men like Stephen Hawking know a hell of a lot more than I will ever know. I also agree that in large part that faith is a man made construct that makes us all feel we have a purpose for being and affirms our life rather than letting us all focus on our eventually snuffing it.

Where I get stuck tho is that I believe in ghosts as I've had a few family members who have encountered it and I trust them entirely when they tell me it was real. So that opens another big can of worms and I go round in circles. Is there a messiah and a heaven - I dunno, I mean who does. But I guess if you're a good person it wouldn't matter what you believed in you will always find your way to 'heaven' in any case.

But just in case when u cark it that's you're lot I guess I shud book a holiday in the closest place on earth - the Maldives :)

Interesting post, I have a question though.

If you believe in ghosts from personal experience (or other people's in your case) then that is entirely your personal choice to do so. Personal experience in a lot of cases makes this kind of thing hard to debate, because as much as you can't prove to me what happened, I'm in no better position to disprove you either.

You say the thing that alters your stance is your belief in ghosts. So what you have done, is connect these two concepts together (i.e. you see ghosts as proof of an after life). Would you say this has to be true? Could there not be a scientific theory, say some kind of energy signatures or something similar, that would mean that there doesn't have to be an afterlife for ghosts to exist?

I'm just curious because you seem to have jumped from ghosts to an afterlife. I don't believe in ghosts but if they were proven to exist, I would want to know their nature before logically progressing to the conclusion that they were proof of any afterlife.

Good point.

TBH, I don't care how much you may trust someone it's foolish to believe in an alleged phenomena just because they tell you they saw it. People are easily deceived.

Yeah it's a fair point I mean I don't pupport to have any answers when it comes to these sorts of topics because frankly no one knows. I suppose I do tend to blur the lines between these two different concepts however I just tend to see heaven or 'afterlife' as encompassing whatever comes next.

I see the supernatural as a possibility that spirits can potentially linger on after death.I guess I am then connecting the soul lingering and afterlife with religious 'resurrection' connotations. Religion exists in many forms throughout the years so I guess this is my little form of 'religion' haha. Again I could be wrong in this and there could be a scientific explanation/ people could be pre-disposed to these experiences due to SOM etc...

My granny was a spiritualist and my dad told me my neighbour died in his sleep over breakfast before the ambulance even came to collect him (he didn't do it! haha) and before his wife told us on our way out that morning! Things like this tend to make me think twice but you are right I shouldn't use this as confirmation and I don't it just makes me sway towards possibilities.

:D

 

[tonea2003]

people who believe shit like this are fucking bellends..fact.

Got any scientific proof or evidence?

I wish people would read posts correctly
I did not say that

 

[SkyBlueFlux]

people who believe shit like this are fucking bellends..fact.

Got any scientific proof or evidence?

I wish people would read posts correctly
I did not say that

In fairness I think your post looked like you did because of the way you worded it. I can see what you meant though, the people who should be taken to task are the people that say that.

I think some religious people struggle to accept logic as an argument, in the same way an artist would say that logic hinders rather than enhances their work. Although some people are of the thought that the only truths in life are the logical ones (I'm one of these).

For me it's just two schools of thought and I have accepted this as a consequence of mankind's creativity. There are always going to be those that support the illogical. If we were nothing but a logic machine then we wouldn't be the same species we are today, our creativity is important to us and I think beliefs in this kind of thing are just a consequence of that.

 

[Ducado]

For me it's just two schools of thought and I have accepted this as a consequence of mankind's creativity. There are always going to be those that support the illogical. If we were nothing but a logic machine then we wouldn't be the same species we are today, our creativity is important to us and I think beliefs in this kind of thing are just a consequence of that.

Really?<br /><br />-- Sat May 21, 2011 11:12 pm --<br /><br />OK lets turn this one on it's head

Can any person prove that Heaven or an after life does not exist?

Now I am asking proof not a belief or an opinion but solid proof that it does not exist.

 

[SkyBlueFlux]

For me it's just two schools of thought and I have accepted this as a consequence of mankind's creativity. There are always going to be those that support the illogical. If we were nothing but a logic machine then we wouldn't be the same species we are today, our creativity is important to us and I think beliefs in this kind of thing are just a consequence of that.

Really?

-- Sat May 21, 2011 11:12 pm --

OK lets turn this one on it's head

Can any person prove that Heaven or an after life does not exist?

Now I am asking proof not a belief or an opinion but solid proof that it does not exist.

I know I didn't make it clear but I wasn't really talking about these concepts. As you know, my answer to your question is that there isn't any.

I was talking more broadly about religions in general.

I don't see belief in a God or heaven as illogical, like I said earlier in the thread, I see it as wishful thinking, but not illogical.

I was speaking more about people believing in a talking snake or a man walking on water.

 

[Skashion]

OK lets turn this one on it's head

Can any person prove that Heaven or an after life does not exist?

Now I am asking proof not a belief or an opinion but solid proof that it does not exist.

There is never a need to prove a negative. Logic 101.

 

[BulgarianPride]

people who believe shit like this are fucking bellends..fact.

Got any scientific proof or evidence?

I wish people would read posts correctly
I did not say that

Sorry about that.

 

[OnlyOneUweRosler]

Of course there is a heaven