Is the false nine an updated version of the Revie plan

Blue and still suffering

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Not sure if this has been discussed before and I am not old enough to remember the original but I was wondering whether there were any similarities between the deep lying centre forward role as defined by Revie and the current way we play?
 
Not sure if this has been discussed before and I am not old enough to remember the original but I was wondering whether there were any similarities between the deep lying centre forward role as defined by Revie and the current way we play?
Interesting thought. I am old enough to remember the games where it was used but I certainly couldn't comment on the tactics that were used.

Maybe need to look at any videos of the FA Cup Final to try to identify any similarity.
 
A false 9 system grew up on the continent in the 1930s. After the war, it reached its zenith with the magical Magyars of the fifties. Their withdrawn CF was Hideguti (sp?). They smashed all and sundry including England at Wembley, the first side to beat us there. They repeated the trick back in Hungary. Can't remember the scores, but the aggregate from the two games was about 13--3. 1954 World Cup they smashed W. Germany (8, I think) in the early rounds and met them again in the final. W.GER. won amid rumours of foul play e.g. poisoning.
I think Les McDowell copied their system for the Revie plan.
The Magyars included elements of what we would now call total football and I think Rinus Mikels was an admirer. So a route through Dutch football from Hungary 1950s to Pep.
A more accurate run down here, including the correct spelling of the CF!
 
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Les McDowell had tried it with the reserves at the end of that 53-54 season having seen the Hungary game (I was told a good number of years ago). It was tried with the first team next season using Revie in the deeper roll. Didn't work for ages but came good later in the season when the FA cup was won. It could be the English obsession with numbers ie if no 9 is worn must be a centre forward or the similarity to that Hungarian system but Hidegkuti saw his roll as an attacking midfielder not a deep lying centre forward he is quoted as saying in an interview at the time.
 
Les McDowell had tried it with the reserves at the end of that 53-54 season having seen the Hungary game (I was told a good number of years ago). It was tried with the first team next season using Revie in the deeper roll. Didn't work for ages but came good later in the season when the FA cup was won. It could be the English obsession with numbers ie if no 9 is worn must be a centre forward or the similarity to that Hungarian system but Hidegkuti saw his roll as an attacking midfielder not a deep lying centre forward he is quoted as saying in an interview at the time.
In case the terminology police pounce! Hidegkuti didn't use the term "attacking midfielder" he said "half back"
 
Les McDowell had tried it with the reserves at the end of that 53-54 season having seen the Hungary game (I was told a good number of years ago). It was tried with the first team next season using Revie in the deeper roll. Didn't work for ages but came good later in the season when the FA cup was won. It could be the English obsession with numbers ie if no 9 is worn must be a centre forward or the similarity to that Hungarian system but Hidegkuti saw his roll as an attacking midfielder not a deep lying centre forward he is quoted as saying in an interview at the time.
Whatever Hidegkuti's role, it completely baffled the England centre-half, Harry Johnston of Blackpool. The poor chap didn't know whether to follow Hidegkuti and leave a gap in the England central defence, or to ignore him and let him roam free further back.

As you say, the received opinion here was that No 9 had to be a big bruising six-footer who stayed up front and put chances away. When Les McDowall tried it out with City, the new plan was tested in the Central League (the reserve teams' competition) with Johnny Williamson lying deep to confuse opposing defences. It reached its zenith with Revie in that role, but Williamson deserves a lot of credit as the true pioneer of the system.

I used to see Johnny coming to watch City games for many a season after he retired, and a few old gits like me recognised him - he always acknowledged our greeting to him. I don't know if he is still alive but he was for a long time one of City's oldest players.
 
Thing is football in general was averse to change even more than it is nowadays. From the begining the accepted "plan" was universal, two big f'backs, either side of a big c'half, a playmaker winghalf, a mobile hardman w'half, battering ram c/f wingers who never left the touch-line and "tricky inside-forwards (Scottish quite often). Tactics were rarely mentioned, so when City and it's Revie plan came along it was a major talking point, even more so than having no dedicated striker. Breaking the mould does that, whether it's "inverted f'backs" or sweeper-keepers, some people hate some praise. Most of the goals using the Revie plan we would have scored anyway, same as the false-nine set-up, both definitely created goals/chances, but not that many to win leagues and cups. On some of the small pitches at the time, the revie plan was virtually undetectable, at MR it was obvious. In conclusion the similarities are clear, not just on the pitch but in the willingness to lead the way, not tag along. That's Pep to a tee.
 
To update my previous post, Williamson died last August aged 92.

There was a tribute from Tommy Doyle, who pays tribute to JW, saying how he always looked after Tommy at home games when Tommy was a young lad.

I fancy he might well have been City's oldest player up to last August. (Who is it now?)
 

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