Israel-Palestine Conflict

[Ducado]

Not sure that the “just solution” statement quiet holds true, given a large portion of Israeli’s have no qualms about the mass slaughter of Gaza’s civilian population:

Some poll results from the Israel Democracy Institute:

To what extent do you think that Israel should take into consideration the suffering of the civilian Palestinian population in Gaza when planning the next phases of fighting there?

Not at all: Jews 47.5 Arabs 1.2
Not so much: Jews 35.9 Arabs 4.5
Quite a lot: Jews 7.7 Arabs 21.2
Very much: Jews 5.2 Arabs 62.1
Don't know: Jews 3.7 Arabs 11.0

Do you agree or disagree that when undertaking military operations, the IDF should ensure that it is not breaking international laws and rules of war?

Strongly agree: Jews 14.3 Arabs: 71.2
Somewhat agree: Jews 33.6 Arabs 11.4
Somewhat disagree: Jews 26.6 Arabs 3.8
Strongly disagree: Jews 19.2 Arabs 1.1
Don't know: Jews 6.5 Arabs 12.5


Only 12.9% of Jews in Israel in high support of "considering the suffering of the civilian Palestinian population." 47.5% believes they should not be considered at all.

A larger percentage of Jews in Israel strongly support breaking international laws and rules of war (19.2%) than upholding them (14.3%).

To be fair you would get similar figures in any country after an attack of magnitude, 9/11 got teh West to do all kinds of unwise things to little avail (apart from hand Irag to Iranian proxies) hurt people, hurt people

Again try and see things from that side of the fence as hard as it is, as the great Sufi poet and saint Rumi said

Out beyond ideas of wrongdoing and rightdoing there is a field. I'll meet you there

 

[halfcenturyup]

Neither is Hamas.

What next?

You are missing the point. If Israel doesn't want a two-state solution, and it isn't imposed on them by the US, then it doesn't matter what Hamas do or don't want. On the other hand, if Israel does support a two-state solution, there are ways of strangling Hamas and making them irrelevant.

And have you actually thought what it means to say Israel don't want a two-state solution? They clearly won't want an additional 5 million Palestinians in their one state. So where do they go? Egypt? Jordan? Dead?

 

[Mon Autre]

Neither is Hamas.

What next?

Think it's been explained to you 3 or 4 times now by different posters that Israel has the power to support and platform a negotiating party who would look at working towards to two state solution on behalf of the Palestinian people but they are choosing not to.

 

[Bluemoon_420]

Out beyond ideas of wrongdoing and rightdoing there is a field. I'll meet you there

The whole world could do with taking heed of the great man’s many wise words.

 

[blueinsa]

Think it's been explained to you 3 or 4 times now by different posters that Israel has the power to support and platform a negotiating party who would look at working towards to two state solution on behalf of the Palestinian people but they are choosing not to.

It’s also been explained to you that they are dealing with a complete no faith terrorist organisation that has zero desire for a 2 state solution and only wants the state of Israel to no longer exist.

So Israel needs a more moderate government, no issue with that but Hamas has to go, completely, there is no discussion to be had with them.

How do we get rid of Hamas? How does the Palestinian people get rid of Hamas?

 

[metalblue]

Who are the Orthodox Jews aggravating the settlers situation, and how?

The Haredim. At least the younger generation after the death of several prominent rabbi but even the middle aged. The rabbi have (or had) largely controlled the voting intentions and actions of the Haredim, that’s now changing partly driven by these deaths and also a lack of confidence in the old guard following the increase in attacks by Palestinian’s on the Haredim as part of the wider conflict in recent years.

Ben-Gvir’s rise to kingmaker in the Israeli coalition is down to his popularity with this group of the Haredim. His Palestinian hating rhetoric is emboldening them to take a more offensive approach.

 

[domalino]

It’s also been explained to you that they are dealing with a complete no faith terrorist organisation that has zero desire for a 2 state solution and only wants the state of Israel to no longer exist.

So Israel needs a more moderate government, no issue with that but Hamas has to go, completely, there is no discussion to be had with them.

How do we get rid of Hamas? How does the Palestinian people get rid of Hamas?

How did Northern Ireland get rid of the IRA? The most basic answer is pretty much that Gerry Adams et al realised they couldn't win. They could keep a conflict going but they couldn't unify Ireland.

Hamas has in some ways already had that moment, they've officially accepted a 2 state solution and their stated aim is 1967 borders.

Now I'm sure there's plenty of people in Hamas who don't accept that, just like there were loads in the IRA who never gave up on a united Ireland, but you deal with the people in charge.

But there will never be any progress towards peace when most of the Israeli cabinet rose to prominence campaigning against peace in the 90s.

You can make progress towards peace with 1 bad faith or questionable faith party and 1 genuine party. That is basically the 80s and 90s. Israel dealt with loads of broken promises and bad intentions, but Rabin wanted peace so he kept going.

Israel/Palestine has 2 bad faith parties not interested in peace, and frankly the rest of the world just has to sit and wait until Israel is ready to talk again.

 

[The blue phantom]

What difference does it make in Britain?
Are you inferring that they’ll vote conservative instead?
Conservative position is the exact same.

I'm well aware of that. But in a more Muslim populated area maybe they'll vote for someone independent or the Lib Dems.

 

[halfcenturyup]

How do we get rid of Hamas? How does the Palestinian people get rid of Hamas?

Not this again. There have been plenty of suggestions on how to deal with Hamas that don't involve killing 10,000 civilians.

And how do you expect the people of Gaza to deal with Hamas? They can barely breathe.

 

[Roachy]

Think it's been explained to you 3 or 4 times now by different posters that Israel has the power to support and platform a negotiating party who would look at working towards to two state solution on behalf of the Palestinian people but they are choosing not to.

Is this what the Palestinian people want as well?