Israel-Palestine Conflict

[Vic]

I have seen quite a few other videos of IDF soldiers undertaking objectionable (or outright illegal) actions over the last few months. As they are not all independently verified I have not shared them here.

But I am confident that at least a large percentage of them are real, especially those the IDF soldiers are recording and posting themselves, and it paints a horrific picture of the state of the Israeli military and the mindset of many of those carrying out operations in Gaza and the West Bank.

There have been warnings for some time—well before the 7th October attacks—that a larger and larger segment of the IDF (both based on the inherent issues with the conscription system and through actual targeted recruitment) was comprised of ultra-right nationalists (many of them Kahanists or members of offshoots groups descending from the Jewish National Front). And much of the abhorrent behaviour and potential war crimes from the IDF is being perpetrated by that group.

And the current far-right coalition government—particularly Gallant, Smotrich, and Ben-Gvir—are shielding them from any substantive oversight or accountability.

The frightening part for me, personally, is that when I bring up these horrible acts and atrocities with many of my Jewish family or friends (especially those living in Israel), many respond by saying “look what Hamas did and is doing!” As if that somehow justifies Israelis doing similar or worse. Some of that is religious beliefs informing what is acceptable, some of it is just still deep-seated rage.

When I point out that the logical inference from that defence is that they are indicating the IDF (and other official entities of Israel) have become a terrorist organisation they usually either stop engaging or call me a self-hating Jew. Those that continue to engage in earnest try to argue that acting like Hamas doesn’t make the IDF like them, because they are doing it for the good of Israel and Jewish people everywhere.

Not all agree with that stance, but the (seemingly growing) proportion who do makes me very uncomfortable. The far-right has genuinely begun to shape public discourse and opinion in Israel and beyond.

My close friend is Jewish (heritage) - his grandfather escaped Poland in the late 30s; his great uncle stayed and died. He was long ago (before October 7th) thrown out of his Yiddish (language) facebook group over sympathy for the Palestinians and says it's impossible to discuss it with his relatives.

Yesterday we discussed Trumpeldor (not a Zionist name I knew).

 

[SebastianBlue]

My close friend is Jewish (heritage) - his grandfather escaped Poland in the late 30s; his great uncle stayed and died. He was long ago (before October 7th) thrown out of his Yiddish (language) facebook group over sympathy for the Palestinians and says it's impossible to discuss it with his relatives.

Yesterday we discussed Trumpeldor (not a Zionist name I knew).

I am sorry to hear that but can relate to his experience. My great aunt and several other members of my family, as well as several old friends of my family, have stopped talking to me because of my criticism of the Israeli government’s actions, both before and after 7th October.

A few haven’t stopped talking to me, they’ve just become aggressive in their responses to my criticism, sometimes bordering on abusive.

It’s horrible. But I am not going to just sit silent whilst I see these things being perpetrated so I cannot not anger or disappoint others. That’s certainly not the example I want to set for my son. And it shouldn’t be one any person, much less a Jewish person, should want to set.

 

[BayernMan]

 

[SebastianBlue]

U.S. Support for Israel’s War Has Become Indefensible

A good pretext for war is not enough to make a war just.

www.theatlantic.com

 

[Postman Pep]

I think it was about 3 or 4 days in when the 'beheaded babies' claim was made, amidst other wild stories that turned out to be lies.

I think I said at the time something along the lines of when the truth of what happened that day is so horrific why the need to make shit up.

Obviously the answer was to manufacture consent for the level of retribution.... and 6 months on we (the West) are still consenting.

We were lied into the Gaza genocide. Al Jazeera has shown us how

Myth-busting documentary finally breaks the stranglehold of Israel and its western media acolytes over the story of what happened on 7 October

www.middleeasteye.net

 

[Postman Pep]

Manufacturing consent

 

[Vic]

U.S. Support for Israel’s War Has Become Indefensible

A good pretext for war is not enough to make a war just.

www.theatlantic.com

This is just obvious to anyone familiar with historic theories of just war.

"A good pretext for war is not enough to make a war just" is casus belli (a just cause) against jus in bello (just conduct in war). It doesn't matter how just the cause, Israel is committing war crimes.

 

[SebastianBlue]

This is just obvious to anyone familiar with historic theories of just war.

"A good pretext for war is not enough to make a war just" is casus belli (a just cause) against jus in bello (just conduct in war).

Of course, but it is still important to state and disseminate, for two reasons:

1) Not everyone considers this
2) Not everyone is familiar with historic theories of just war (or the philosophy of “just war”)

Did you read the article?

 

[Vic]

Of course, but it is still important to state and disseminate, for two reasons:

1) Not everyone considers this
2) Not everyone is familiar with historic theories of just war (or the philosophy of “just war”)

Did you read the article?

No. Paywall.

The headline and strapline seemed clear enough.

 

[The Future’s Blue!]

ICJ orders Israel to sort the famine issue out.