Israel strikes again!!!

[casebian]

wasnt it the jewish that first settled there with abraham before the roman rule islam was way after christians romancatholic armenian and orthodox greek christian and jewish people settled there but salhadine and otoman empires ruled it for longer than anyone else i think i may be wrong im rusty on history but how does it belong to anyone they all took the land off each other fuck knows who originally ownes it

 

[savo]

Terrible.

However, I have to wonder why there isn't the same outrage from some when Hamas fires rockets in to Israel (this strike was in response to just such an action).

thought exactly the same, but don't think the OP wants that to be highlighted

Well now, in my opinion, the difference is that one is a terrorist organisation run by fanatics while the other is a nation that should exercise diplomacy and and restraint when trying to protect it people. I find it unfortunate that the Israeli state and its people have not realised that you cannot defeat terorists with widescale retalitary attacks which usually result in disproportionate Palenstianian casualties.

Israel needs to builds relationships with moderate Palestinians, they need to somehow realise that in order to defeat Hamas they must provide the Palesntinian people with an alternative to the terrorists. At the moment Israel are empowering Hamas and its support base. Israel must give more to the Palestinian people in order to be seen as honest brokers in the mid-east. With their current admin and policies there is no hope of reconciliation with the Palestinians.

To act as a legitimate state, Israel should practice restraint and engage diplomacy with the Palestinians they must show that they are truly interested in a FAIR and viable solution to the Palestinian proble. The need to STOP unilateral attacks on a civilian population most of whom do not have a pot to piss in. For a people that has suffered so much in its history, it amazes me that their society can be so devoid of compassion in the pursuit of national security.

 

[Ireland Haroo]

 

[brass neck]

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=249JaIaubVw&feature=PlayList&p=8231BDAE02666D9D&playnext_from=PL&playnext=1&index=71[/youtube]
Last few seconds of this some up the media bias nicely!!! He isnt everyones cup of tea, but at least he stands for something,

 

[bluemanc]

thought exactly the same, but don't think the OP wants that to be highlighted

Well now, in my opinion, the difference is that one is a terrorist organisation run by fanatics while the other is a nation that should exercise diplomacy and and restraint when trying to protect it people. I find it unfortunate that the Israeli state and its people have not realised that you cannot defeat terorists with widescale retalitary attacks which usually result in disproportionate Palenstianian casualties.

Israel needs to builds relationships with moderate Palestinians, they need to somehow realise that in order to defeat Hamas they must provide the Palesntinian people with an alternative to the terrorists. At the moment Israel are empowering Hamas and its support base. Israel must give more to the Palestinian people in order to be seen as honest brokers in the mid-east. With their current admin and policies there is no hope of reconciliation with the Palestinians.

To act as a legitimate state, Israel should practice restraint and engage diplomacy with the Palestinians they must show that they are truly interested in a FAIR and viable solution to the Palestinian proble. The need to STOP unilateral attacks on a civilian population most of whom do not have a pot to piss in. For a people that has suffered so much in its history, it amazes me that their society can be so devoid of compassion in the pursuit of national security.

Superb post savo,what also needs to be done is the supply of rockets/missiles from iran etc has to be stopped,while they keep firing on Israel nothing will get sorted out.
We saw when saddam fired rockets on Israel that "they" will do anything to provoke Israel into starting a war.

 

[Ireland Haroo]

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=george+galloway+israel+palestine&aq=0[/youtube]

Hate that tw@ more than gary neville.

 

[Prestwich_Blue]

thought exactly the same, but don't think the OP wants that to be highlighted

Well now, in my opinion, the difference is that one is a terrorist organisation run by fanatics while the other is a nation that should exercise diplomacy and and restraint when trying to protect it people. I find it unfortunate that the Israeli state and its people have not realised that you cannot defeat terorists with widescale retalitary attacks which usually result in disproportionate Palenstianian casualties.

Israel needs to builds relationships with moderate Palestinians, they need to somehow realise that in order to defeat Hamas they must provide the Palesntinian people with an alternative to the terrorists. At the moment Israel are empowering Hamas and its support base. Israel must give more to the Palestinian people in order to be seen as honest brokers in the mid-east. With their current admin and policies there is no hope of reconciliation with the Palestinians.

To act as a legitimate state, Israel should practice restraint and engage diplomacy with the Palestinians they must show that they are truly interested in a FAIR and viable solution to the Palestinian proble. The need to STOP unilateral attacks on a civilian population most of whom do not have a pot to piss in. For a people that has suffered so much in its history, it amazes me that their society can be so devoid of compassion in the pursuit of national security.

A very good post if I may say so. Israel should be bolstering someone like Mahmoud Abbas not emasculating him. I find it so depressing that there isn't a more imaginative response to terrorist acts than brute force. However, when Israel (allegedly) carries out a surgical strike against one of its enemies then it gets criticised as well.

A lot of the problem could be to do with the nature of the democratic process in Israel. The Israeli government is not a homogeneous unit but a fragile coalition, invariably with a significant right-wing element. To maintain the coalition, the executive has to pander to these elements or it will fall. Nor can any government appear to be "soft" on security. If ever there was a left-wing/centrist coalition then there might be a chance for peace.

Netanyahu to me is a poor leader who plays it safe and doesn't have the inclination, imagination or authority to make any bold moves whereas Begin, who had immacualte right-wing credentials, did.

 

[savo]

Well now, in my opinion, the difference is that one is a terrorist organisation run by fanatics while the other is a nation that should exercise diplomacy and and restraint when trying to protect it people. I find it unfortunate that the Israeli state and its people have not realised that you cannot defeat terorists with widescale retalitary attacks which usually result in disproportionate Palenstianian casualties.

Israel needs to builds relationships with moderate Palestinians, they need to somehow realise that in order to defeat Hamas they must provide the Palesntinian people with an alternative to the terrorists. At the moment Israel are empowering Hamas and its support base. Israel must give more to the Palestinian people in order to be seen as honest brokers in the mid-east. With their current admin and policies there is no hope of reconciliation with the Palestinians.

To act as a legitimate state, Israel should practice restraint and engage diplomacy with the Palestinians they must show that they are truly interested in a FAIR and viable solution to the Palestinian proble. The need to STOP unilateral attacks on a civilian population most of whom do not have a pot to piss in. For a people that has suffered so much in its history, it amazes me that their society can be so devoid of compassion in the pursuit of national security.

Superb post savo,what also needs to be done is the supply of rockets/missiles from iran etc has to be stopped,while they keep firing on Israel nothing will get sorted out.
We saw when saddam fired rockets on Israel that "they" will do anything to provoke Israel into starting a war.

Absolutely, the Iranians seem to use the Palestinians as pawns, they give them shit loads of rockets worth I suppose thousands but the wouldn't be so quick to ship in some food and water when the Israelis have the place locked up. The Iranians use the Palestinians to flex their muscles to the rest of the world, they really have no interest in saving Palestinian lifes and the longer it goes on, the more it in turn encourages the piss poor Iranians to support nuts like their own president (wont even try to spell his name). The very idea of national borders is a sham to split innocent people into national populations divided along lines of geography and ethnicity. When the fook will we all realise that we are all the same. We want to live with freedom, excercise our free will and settle down with a family that we can keep safe. It doesn't matter what race, religion, ethnicity, colour or anything. We all really want the same thing. They conspire to tell us otherwise. It is the ultimate control mechanism.

 

[Prestwich_Blue]

Sadly the Palestinians have always been used as pawns. That's the real tragedy.

 

[bluemanc]

Superb post savo,what also needs to be done is the supply of rockets/missiles from iran etc has to be stopped,while they keep firing on Israel nothing will get sorted out.
We saw when saddam fired rockets on Israel that "they" will do anything to provoke Israel into starting a war.

Absolutely, the Iranians seem to use the Palestinians as pawns, they give them shit loads of rockets worth I suppose thousands but the wouldn't be so quick to ship in some food and water when the Israelis have the place locked up. The Iranians use the Palestinians to flex their muscles to the rest of the world, they really have no interest in saving Palestinian lifes and the longer it goes on, the more it in turn encourages the piss poor Iranians to support nuts like their own president (wont even try to spell his name). The very idea of national borders is a sham to split innocent people into national populations divided along lines of geography and ethnicity. When the fook will we all realise that we are all the same. We want to live with freedom, excercise our free will and settle down with a family that we can keep safe. It doesn't matter what race, religion, ethnicity, colour or anything. We all really want the same thing. They conspire to tell us otherwise. It is the ultimate control mechanism.

We STILL have a divided Ireland so i'm sure we don't have the answer,America can act as a buffer between the 2 but how in gods name do you stop Iran Syria etc from supplying rockets that are being fired at Israel ?? & how do you tell Israel to turn the other cheek & stop retaliating while the problem is solved ??

 

[savo]

Absolutely, the Iranians seem to use the Palestinians as pawns, they give them shit loads of rockets worth I suppose thousands but the wouldn't be so quick to ship in some food and water when the Israelis have the place locked up. The Iranians use the Palestinians to flex their muscles to the rest of the world, they really have no interest in saving Palestinian lifes and the longer it goes on, the more it in turn encourages the piss poor Iranians to support nuts like their own president (wont even try to spell his name). The very idea of national borders is a sham to split innocent people into national populations divided along lines of geography and ethnicity. When the fook will we all realise that we are all the same. We want to live with freedom, excercise our free will and settle down with a family that we can keep safe. It doesn't matter what race, religion, ethnicity, colour or anything. We all really want the same thing. They conspire to tell us otherwise. It is the ultimate control mechanism.

We STILL have a divided Ireland so i'm sure we don't have the answer,America can act as a buffer between the 2 but how in gods name do you stop Iran Syria etc from supplying rockets that are being fired at Israel ?? & how do you tell Israel to turn the other cheek & stop retaliating while the problem is solved ??

You know what, Ireland is a case study for everyone, yes the map shows a big line delineating Eire and the UK, and some of the people are aligned to the south and others to Westminster, but there are only a couple of retards left who are willing to fight for these so called allegiances. Most people do not care, they want a home, job an family. They are tired of fighting for a flag that does not really provide anything back in the end. I firmly believe that every dispute can be solved so long as oppression is stopped and people concede to compromise. If it worked in N'Ireland, it will work anywhere.

 

[bluemanc]

We STILL have a divided Ireland so i'm sure we don't have the answer,America can act as a buffer between the 2 but how in gods name do you stop Iran Syria etc from supplying rockets that are being fired at Israel ?? & how do you tell Israel to turn the other cheek & stop retaliating while the problem is solved ??

You know what, Ireland is a case study for everyone, yes the map shows a big line delineating Eire and the UK, and some of the people are aligned to the south and others to Westminster, but there are only a couple of retards left who are willing to fight for these so called allegiances. Most people do not care, they want a home, job an family. They are tired of fighting for a flag that does not really provide anything back in the end. I firmly believe that every dispute can be solved so long as oppression is stopped and people concede to compromise. If it worked in N'Ireland, it will work anywhere.

The answer is very clear then,you have to remove ALL outside influences & get the 2 sides at a table & keep them their..........BUT who is capable of getting rid of ALL the outside influences & getting both sides around a table OR who has the bollocks or the brains to do it ??

 

[blueonblue]

Lets get a few facts clear, Israel was born of terrorism, in 1948 3 british sergents were kidnaped and exercuted to back up zionists demand, the zionists were not the local jews but the dregges of easten europe........who ran a campain of bombings and shoting with the "Sten gang" and "Irgun".

This was the first terrorist state to come into existance simply because the UN bottled it and abandoned the people of palistine..........Who were forced out of their homes at gunpoint.

After years of trying to be heard with no results the PLO, Hammas, PLA, Black september, ect took a leaf out of Israels book, all they have is a few home made rockets.........against a modern day army/airforce who bomb and shell civilian area`s at will..........as the only way they can draw attention to their plight, they are still being robbed in their own land by war crime after war crime.

 

[Anonymous]

It appears as though you've fallen into the trap of thinking that the conflict can be resolved simply by getting Israel to change its approach. It can't.

You also need to ask the question of how you can persuade Hamas to give up their stated aim of wiping Israel off the map.

I've not fallen into any trap at all. OK, we'll make another assumption just to make it absolutely clear there isn't a 'trap'. Imagine there's no Hamas, no Hezbollah, no intifadas. Nada. Now, answer the question. How do you get Israel to make concessions? My answer: You can't right now. The status quo is preferable, and one in which there is no 'terrorism' would be even more so. What's your answer. I'm fairly sure of why you're avoiding this question. Prove me wrong.

I have no idea where you're trying to go with this, and I would be grateful if you could tell me why you think I'm avoiding anything. In my original post I was merely pointing out that you only mentioned how Israel must change its approach. That cannot work, it must be bilateral.

It's very easy to say that we should imagine that the groups you mentioned don't exist, but they do. If they didn't, who knows what Israel would do? I don't & neither do you & pretending otherwise is pointless.

 

[Helmet Cole]

Well now, in my opinion, the difference is that one is a terrorist organisation run by fanatics while the other is a nation that should exercise diplomacy and and restraint when trying to protect it people. I find it unfortunate that the Israeli state and its people have not realised that you cannot defeat terorists with widescale retalitary attacks which usually result in disproportionate Palenstianian casualties.

Israel needs to builds relationships with moderate Palestinians, they need to somehow realise that in order to defeat Hamas they must provide the Palesntinian people with an alternative to the terrorists. At the moment Israel are empowering Hamas and its support base. Israel must give more to the Palestinian people in order to be seen as honest brokers in the mid-east. With their current admin and policies there is no hope of reconciliation with the Palestinians.

To act as a legitimate state, Israel should practice restraint and engage diplomacy with the Palestinians they must show that they are truly interested in a FAIR and viable solution to the Palestinian proble. The need to STOP unilateral attacks on a civilian population most of whom do not have a pot to piss in. For a people that has suffered so much in its history, it amazes me that their society can be so devoid of compassion in the pursuit of national security.

Superb post savo,what also needs to be done is the supply of rockets/missiles from iran etc has to be stopped,while they keep firing on Israel nothing will get sorted out.
We saw when saddam fired rockets on Israel that "they" will do anything to provoke Israel into starting a war.

So while we are stopping the supply of weapons from iran to palestine should we in the west continue to arm Israel?

 

[brooklandsblue2.0]

I will always stand up for Israel against regimes that support the Islamofacists, we should remember that when push comes to shove they'll have our backs!

 

[bluemanc]

Superb post savo,what also needs to be done is the supply of rockets/missiles from iran etc has to be stopped,while they keep firing on Israel nothing will get sorted out.
We saw when saddam fired rockets on Israel that "they" will do anything to provoke Israel into starting a war.

So while we are stopping the supply of weapons from iran to palestine should we in the west continue to arm Israel?

That shouldn't be a problem,but what the other influences in the area should be made aware of is that the full force of Western military might will fall on them if they use the "stopping of the supply of weapons"to Israel as an opportunity to attack Israel,it's not what you really meant though is it.<br /><br />-- Sat Apr 03, 2010 1:23 am --<br /><br />

Lets get a few facts clear, Israel was born of terrorism, in 1948 3 british sergents were kidnaped and exercuted to back up zionists demand, the zionists were not the local jews but the dregges of easten europe........who ran a campain of bombings and shoting with the "Sten gang" and "Irgun".

This was the first terrorist state to come into existance simply because the UN bottled it and abandoned the people of palistine..........Who were forced out of their homes at gunpoint.

After years of trying to be heard with no results the PLO, Hammas, PLA, Black september, ect took a leaf out of Israels book, all they have is a few home made rockets.........against a modern day army/airforce who bomb and shell civilian area`s at will..........as the only way they can draw attention to their plight, they are still being robbed in their own land by war crime after war crime.

Awesome truly awesome,dear me.

 

[Helmet Cole]

TBH I think Isreal has enough in the way of weapons to fight its corner for the forseeable even if there were an arms embargo tonight. As for what I meant I promise you there is no cryptic stuff or reading between the lines required. I mean just what I say - both sides need to be treated with equality. Any percieved bias would allow one or the other to cry victim and stop any peace process.

 

[bluemanc]

TBH I think Isreal has enough in the way of weapons to fight its corner for the forseeable even if there were an arms embargo tonight. As for what I meant I promise you there is no cryptic stuff or reading between the lines required. I mean just what I say - both sides need to be treated with equality. Any percieved bias would allow one or the other to cry victim and stop any peace process.

The big question is WHO brings them together ?? who will be able to make them sit at a table & sort the problems out.
As long as no other outside influence gets involved it can work, like as was quoted by Savo Ireland is a good example that although trouble is still happening they themselves have sorted the problems out.....well nearly.

 

[sweynforkbeard]

Lets get a few facts clear, Israel was born of terrorism, in 1948 3 british sergents were kidnaped and exercuted to back up zionists demand, the zionists were not the local jews but the dregges of easten europe........who ran a campain of bombings and shoting with the "Sten gang" and "Irgun".

This was the first terrorist state to come into existance simply because the UN bottled it and abandoned the people of palistine..........Who were forced out of their homes at gunpoint.

After years of trying to be heard with no results the PLO, Hammas, PLA, Black september, ect took a leaf out of Israels book, all they have is a few home made rockets.........against a modern day army/airforce who bomb and shell civilian area`s at will..........as the only way they can draw attention to their plight, they are still being robbed in their own land by war crime after war crime.

Sten gang-I love it. What is quite clear, after the University of East Anglia have proved beyond all doubt what a sham global warming is, that if the bloody kikes try and get my beer bottles off me they'll have a fight on their hands.