Issues surrounding Barca

[AgüeroKun]

They need a striker and 2 central defenders.

 

[ManCitizens.]

As soon as you said the word 'roster' your opinion became irrelevant.<br /><br />-- Fri May 03, 2013 10:04 pm --<br /><br />

There are big problems with Barcelona and there are three main causes in my opinion.

1. Guardiola tactically setting the team up poorly.
2. Messi selfishly wanting to get all the glory.
3. Xavi's decline.

Guardiola is vastly overrated when it comes to the tactics of Barcelona between 08-11. As I have said before the tactics were developed and put into the team by Rjikaard and Cryuff. The 4-3-3 is the typical Dutch system. However, after winning everything the Barcelona team became complacent, members of the team were falling out with each other. Guardiola was great at motivating them and he made the team develop their insane pressing up front. This brought them back to being the best team in the world, but even in 08 they were not bad. They reached the semi with a half fit Messi and lost narrowly to Manchester United. Guardiola inherited Messi and Iniesta bled and ready to shine.

However, from 09 onwards he weakened the team by poor decisions. Getting rid of Eto'o the best striker in the world and buying Zlatan was arguably the worst ever football transfer. He then came up with ideas like central defenders were not needed and the key to football was having as many midfielders as possible. This is why he wasted money on Mascherano instead of buying a top class centre back.

People criticise Barcelona for having no plan B, but in 09 they did have a plan B. Etoo was a complete striker and they could whip crosses in. They were physically bigger with players like Puyo, Toure, Henry, Etoo and Keita on the bench.

Messi's desire to have the team built around him meant moving him to the centre and not playing a natural striker or at best playing them out wide. This made the team more predictable, easier to stop and allowed teams to park the bus easier against them.

The final nail in the coffin is the decline of Xavi. Xavi at his best was so fit and his movement was so good he always gave Barcelona an option in midfield allowing them to dominate every game. With his decline teams can now get more of the ball in dangerous areas to expose Barcelona's weak defense.

They need to completely change their formation and tactics if they are going to get back to the force they were.

Not being funny but they have just walked the Spanish league and yes got knocked out in the semis of the champs league. Which they won last year. No team has ever won it back to back remember. To talk of them as a team who need wholesale changes as you are suggesting 12 months after being widely labelled as the best team ever is a little premature.

Final nail of the coffin. Team in decline. Change to formation etc etc. it's all a bit much don't you think. I agree they are heavily reliant on Messi but still. They will take this on the chin and add one or two and this time next year they will be first or second in la liga and still in the champions league.

Chelsea?

 

[Unknown_Genius]

There are big problems with Barcelona and there are three main causes in my opinion.

1. Guardiola tactically setting the team up poorly.
2. Messi selfishly wanting to get all the glory.
3. Xavi's decline.

Guardiola is vastly overrated when it comes to the tactics of Barcelona between 08-11. As I have said before the tactics were developed and put into the team by Rjikaard and Cryuff. The 4-3-3 is the typical Dutch system. However, after winning everything the Barcelona team became complacent, members of the team were falling out with each other. Guardiola was great at motivating them and he made the team develop their insane pressing up front. This brought them back to being the best team in the world, but even in 08 they were not bad. They reached the semi with a half fit Messi and lost narrowly to Manchester United. Guardiola inherited Messi and Iniesta bled and ready to shine.

However, from 09 onwards he weakened the team by poor decisions. Getting rid of Eto'o the best striker in the world and buying Zlatan was arguably the worst ever football transfer. He then came up with ideas like central defenders were not needed and the key to football was having as many midfielders as possible. This is why he wasted money on Mascherano instead of buying a top class centre back.

People criticise Barcelona for having no plan B, but in 09 they did have a plan B. Etoo was a complete striker and they could whip crosses in. They were physically bigger with players like Puyo, Toure, Henry, Etoo and Keita on the bench.

Messi's desire to have the team built around him meant moving him to the centre and not playing a natural striker or at best playing them out wide. This made the team more predictable, easier to stop and allowed teams to park the bus easier against them.

The final nail in the coffin is the decline of Xavi. Xavi at his best was so fit and his movement was so good he always gave Barcelona an option in midfield allowing them to dominate every game. With his decline teams can now get more of the ball in dangerous areas to expose Barcelona's weak defense.

They need to completely change their formation and tactics if they are going to get back to the force they were.

I agree and disagree with some of that.

Guardiola, I agree that sometimes people make him out to be this 'can do no wrong' guy, but I disagree his tactics are a big reason for Barca's current day struggles. Ibrahimovic for Eto'o was a bad move, but they recovered from that. Pedro came good for them, and they signed Villa after the World Cup, and then went on to win the League and Champions League, hammering United in the final. That season, they had Villa and Pedro scoring regularly, Real were battered 5-0 and Messi didn't even score. Villa's leg break was a real blow for them, as a good goalscorer was now gone. An absence of a consistent goalscorer other than Messi was a real problem for them last season. Regarding the plan B in 09, the Champions League semi vs Chelsea was quite telling. They were still playing their usual game, and had looked to have ran out of ideas, until Iniesta's away goal put them through.

Messi's selfishness to get all the glory, is not the problem. That's where he's best. He has too much talent to play predominately wide, where he played before. It will be a waste, and he's a much better player than he was in 2009. They won the League and Champions League in 2011, with Messi playing in that position. The problem is, there are no other consistent goalscorers other than him. In 2011, he had Villa and Pedro, in a front 3 who were both scoring, last season there was no real settled attack, it kept chopping and changing. Guardiola made some mistakes in that department. Their forward line needs sorting out.

Xavi isn't vintage Xavi, but he's still a good player. People said that Pirlo was on the decline before his move to Juventus, but he's bounced back well, so there's hope. I don't believe Barcelona on their way down, a few tweaks here and there, and I can see them being very strong.

 

[MSP]

I agree with supercrystal almost completely. I don't rate Guardiola as much as those who think he is alien though I don't think he is bad tactician. There were few El Clasicos where he proved that wrong and turned things upside down changing tactics in the middle of the games and winning them though at some stage it looked like they are going to be lost. When you do that vs Mourinho, you're not bad tactician. But he did inherited players and system, it's not like he revolutionary built both of them. Made some good changes but had some epic fails too. One thing nobody can't take away from him though - he is smart guy and recognized the best possible moment to leave.

I absolutely agree about Messi remarks. In last 2-3 years barcelona looked like being more interested in chasing, promoting and celebrating Messi records than doing stuff that could extend their domination. Messi is great marketing tool and they wanted to milk most of it while not doing some stuff that just had to be done.

And I definitely agree about Xavi. Their best season of this generation was one when Xavi, not Messi, should win Ballon d'Or, he was so good. His decline started last season and was clear to see this one. Both were not good seasons for this Barcelona generation standards.

 

[supercrystal7]

There are big problems with Barcelona and there are three main causes in my opinion.

1. Guardiola tactically setting the team up poorly.
2. Messi selfishly wanting to get all the glory.
3. Xavi's decline.

Guardiola is vastly overrated when it comes to the tactics of Barcelona between 08-11. As I have said before the tactics were developed and put into the team by Rjikaard and Cryuff. The 4-3-3 is the typical Dutch system. However, after winning everything the Barcelona team became complacent, members of the team were falling out with each other. Guardiola was great at motivating them and he made the team develop their insane pressing up front. This brought them back to being the best team in the world, but even in 08 they were not bad. They reached the semi with a half fit Messi and lost narrowly to Manchester United. Guardiola inherited Messi and Iniesta bled and ready to shine.

However, from 09 onwards he weakened the team by poor decisions. Getting rid of Eto'o the best striker in the world and buying Zlatan was arguably the worst ever football transfer. He then came up with ideas like central defenders were not needed and the key to football was having as many midfielders as possible. This is why he wasted money on Mascherano instead of buying a top class centre back.

People criticise Barcelona for having no plan B, but in 09 they did have a plan B. Etoo was a complete striker and they could whip crosses in. They were physically bigger with players like Puyo, Toure, Henry, Etoo and Keita on the bench.

Messi's desire to have the team built around him meant moving him to the centre and not playing a natural striker or at best playing them out wide. This made the team more predictable, easier to stop and allowed teams to park the bus easier against them.

The final nail in the coffin is the decline of Xavi. Xavi at his best was so fit and his movement was so good he always gave Barcelona an option in midfield allowing them to dominate every game. With his decline teams can now get more of the ball in dangerous areas to expose Barcelona's weak defense.

They need to completely change their formation and tactics if they are going to get back to the force they were.

I agree and disagree with some of that.

Guardiola, I agree that sometimes people make him out to be this 'can do no wrong' guy, but I disagree his tactics are a big reason for Barca's current day struggles. Ibrahimovic for Eto'o was a bad move, but they recovered from that. Pedro came good for them, and they signed Villa after the World Cup, and then went on to win the League and Champions League, hammering United in the final. That season, they had Villa and Pedro scoring regularly, Real were battered 5-0 and Messi didn't even score. Villa's leg break was a real blow for them, as a good goalscorer was now gone. An absence of a consistent goalscorer other than Messi was a real problem for them last season. Regarding the plan B in 09, the Champions League semi vs Chelsea was quite telling. They were still playing their usual game, and had looked to have ran out of ideas, until Iniesta's away goal put them through.

Yes they signed the maybe the best striker in the world after the world cup. At the start of the season I think Villa was playing upfront, but eventually got moved out wide to accommodate Mess. The formation at the time was still the 4-3-3, but with different personal.

Chelsea are greatly underrated. In the 09 match they were outplayed at the Bridge and should have lost had the referee not had a terrible game. Chelsea used to be the team that matched up well against Barcelona for several reasons, which we can go into. There was also a lot of hatred between the two teams and Barcelona fear Chelsea. That is not the same as their toothless performance against Milan or PSG this year.

Messi's selfishness to get all the glory, is not the problem. That's where he's best. He has too much talent to play predominately wide, where he played before. It will be a waste, and he's a much better player than he was in 2009. They won the League and Champions League in 2011, with Messi playing in that position. The problem is, there are no other consistent goalscorers other than him. In 2011, he had Villa and Pedro, in a front 3 who were both scoring, last season there was no real settled attack, it kept chopping and changing. Guardiola made some mistakes in that department. Their forward line needs sorting out.

Messi did not play false 9 for all of 2009, David Villa played upfront. Barcelona have plenty of consistent goal scorers in the squad. Villa, Fabregas, Pedro and Sanchez will all chip in with lots of goals. The problem is that the system is not being utilised to best suit them. Saying Messi is too talented to play predominately outwide is not true either. Ronaldinho played from outwide, as did Nedved and even Zidane on many occasions. Ronaldo currently still does play out wide.

Xavi isn't vintage Xavi, but he's still a good player. People said that Pirlo was on the decline before his move to Juventus, but he's bounced back well, so there's hope. I don't believe Barcelona on their way down, a few tweaks here and there, and I can see them being very strong.

Barcelona have just won the league and made the semi final of the CL. Any decline is relative. However, there problems are a lot bigger than a few tweaks. They still have probably the 3rd best squad in the world, but they need to find a new formation to get the best out of their players, alongside the general maintenance work in replacing a few players. I don't see them winning the CL next year.

 

[ifiwasarichfan]

Hart/Neur (Dead Heat)

Lahm Kompany Dante Clichy


Martinez Scweinsteiger


Silva Yaya Kroos

Muller

Aguero


For any doubters as to how good we are.<br /><br />-- Sat May 04, 2013 1:02 am --<br /><br />Hart


Alves Kompany Lescott Alba

Xavi Yaya Iniesta

Fabregas Lionel

Kun










For anyone in doubt over how good we actually are.

 

[supercrystal7]

Hart/Neur (Dead Heat)

Lahm Kompany Dante Clichy


Martinez Scweinsteiger


Silva Yaya Kroos

Muller

Aguero


For any doubters as to how good we are.

-- Sat May 04, 2013 1:02 am --

Hart


Alves Kompany Lescott Alba

Xavi Yaya Iniesta

Fabregas Lionel

Kun










For anyone in doubt over how good we actually are.

LOL. You are joking right? Also sometimes a player comparison does not tell the whole story. Messi being better than his opposite number is not exactly worth just one place.

A more accurate reflection of you vs Bayern is like this. I have seen a lot of both teams.

Neuer is better than Hart at everything.
Lahm is better than Zabaleta at everything.
Dante is as good as Kompany.
Badstuber is better than Nastacic
Alaba is better than Clichy at everything except speed.
Yaya toure is better attacking and has a greater passing range than Martinez.
Schweinsteiger is better than Barry at everything except possibly aerially.
Ribery is better than anyone in your team so goes in.
Muller is unique and so intelligent and goes in.
Kroos is more productive than Silva and so probably gets the nod.
Aguero is better than Mandzukic.

Team would be like this

Neuer
Lahm Kompany Dante Alaba
Toure Schweinsteiger
Muller Kroos Ribery
Aguero

As for a comparison with Barcelona have not seen as much of them this year, but seen a bit. If we were picking a team based on the best players would be like this.

Hart
Zabaleta Kompany Pique Alba

Toure Xavi Fabregas

Messi Aguero Iniesta

With players like Alves, Buschets and Sanchez it may just be a bad season.