It's off fury v haye.

[NipHolmes]

Fundamentally boxing suffers from the following, if solved it'd give boxing a boost if health

One boxing organisation instead of 6+ per division.
Fight ranking system and compulsory defenses.
Less power to TV companies.
Promoters not allowed to be managers of boxer, conflicts of interest and hold fighter back. Kimmel Kessler didn't fight for 2 years due to promotional problems!
Less divisions in lower weight categories.

 

[oman0115]

Great choice of argument, the biggest star in boxing :/

Why not compare Andre Ward is one of boxings best P4P fighters yet can't even sell out a home town arena. Chad Dawson and Tim Bradley are no different.

-- Wed Jun 26, 2013 4:39 pm --

If boxing is doing so well why did ITV pull out? Why did Sky sacrifice half the budget to F1 instead of investing money into F1. Why did Frank Maloney go bankrupt? Why did Frank Warren do the same and open a new company to start again and even one for his son Francis?

There have been plenty of boxers through out history who've suffered the same fate as Andre Ward. Lennox Lewis even in his early career struggled to sell venues & PPV, Froch up until recently wasn't mainstream. Marketed correctly Ward would be a star but he isn't. Maloney & Warren may have murky dealings, but how do you explain Golden Boy's or Matchrooms success? I think you're picking the finer points and missing the bigger picture.

Goldenboy is down to ODLH being Beckham of boxing. To their credit they make good fights but they burn fighters out quickly. Jacobs v Pirog, Ortiz v Maidana and Khan v Garcia when he needed building after Peterson loss for example. Very few of their fighters have prolonged success and end up burned out quickly.

Matchroom came up with the bastardised boxing concept of Prizefighter and they've been fortunate with it's success. They also came in with good fights but their frequency has tailed off somewhat because they too suffered with burn out. Also they have monopolised the Sky tv dates so are helped out by that. Few people will pay for Boxnation, ESPN, Premier Sports and Primetime and will just stick to what's on Sky Sports.

I hardly cherrypicked examples, both are world champs and in the top 10 p4p list. Ward won the super 6 and KO'ed Chad Dawson who dropped down a division to make the fight but was considered the best LHW in the world by many.

You've hardly come up with anything there other than trying to give reasons to undermine GB & Matchroom. I pay for Boxnation lots of hardcore fans do, it's for hardcore boxing fans not mainstream. Yet to see any evidence to support the notion boxing is dying.

 

[NipHolmes]

There have been plenty of boxers through out history who've suffered the same fate as Andre Ward. Lennox Lewis even in his early career struggled to sell venues & PPV, Froch up until recently wasn't mainstream. Marketed correctly Ward would be a star but he isn't. Maloney & Warren may have murky dealings, but how do you explain Golden Boy's or Matchrooms success? I think you're picking the finer points and missing the bigger picture.

Goldenboy is down to ODLH being Beckham of boxing. To their credit they make good fights but they burn fighters out quickly. Jacobs v Pirog, Ortiz v Maidana and Khan v Garcia when he needed building after Peterson loss for example. Very few of their fighters have prolonged success and end up burned out quickly.

Matchroom came up with the bastardised boxing concept of Prizefighter and they've been fortunate with it's success. They also came in with good fights but their frequency has tailed off somewhat because they too suffered with burn out. Also they have monopolised the Sky tv dates so are helped out by that. Few people will pay for Boxnation, ESPN, Premier Sports and Primetime and will just stick to what's on Sky Sports.

I hardly cherrypicked examples, both are world champs and in the top 10 p4p list. Ward won the super 6 and KO'ed Chad Dawson who dropped down a division to make the fight but was considered the best LHW in the world by many.

You've hardly come up with anything there other than trying to give reasons to undermine GB & Matchroom. I pay for Boxnation lots of hardcore fans do, it's for hardcore boxing fans not mainstream. Yet to see any evidence to support the notion boxing is dying.

No, I've pointed out good reasons, nothing to undermine nothing. Stated their failings and also boxings failings in my other post.

You've hit the nail on the the head yourself with the hardcore remark. I'm a hardcore too but it's the mainstream casuals that count. That's why unpopular but ultra talented fighters are left in the 'who needs em club'.

 

[argyle]

I don't think anyone is claiming boxing is in a particular boom period but the aligation was that boxing is dying out. And the fella quite rightly said there is little evidence of this. Boxing has survived pretty much under the same rules for 150 years and there's been plenty of swings in popularity in that time. I'm quite confident it will continue to survive for a good while yet.

I've no beef with MMA. Not really my cup of tea but that's neither here nor there. If it does turn out to be more than a passing fad, fair enough but it has a long, long way to go to match the popularity of boxing. Certainly in this country.

Oh yeah I agree that MMA in this country hasn't taken off. In the States, Canada and Brazil it by and large smokes boxing, besides the Mayweather and Pacquiao fights etc of course.

I haven't said boxing is dying, I think it's going through a significant dip. It really should be doing much better than it is.

In any case back on topic, is the Fury v Haye fight off completely?<br /><br />-- Wed Jun 26, 2013 6:27 pm --<br /><br />

Fundamentally boxing suffers from the following, if solved it'd give boxing a boost if health

One boxing organisation instead of 6+ per division.
Fight ranking system and compulsory defenses.
Less power to TV companies.
Promoters not allowed to be managers of boxer, conflicts of interest and hold fighter back. Kimmel Kessler didn't fight for 2 years due to promotional problems!
Less divisions in lower weight categories.

Agree with all of this, especially compulsory defenses and promoters not being allowed to be managers.

 

[Corky]

Of course it would be better with one main sanctioning body, but I would welcome more weight divisions at the top end to make it more competitive.

Get rid of cruiser as a name, leave light heavy as it is, intermediate heavy 13st 7lb, Heavy 15st 0lb and Super Heavy above 15st.

This would mean a decent 6 ' 3" heavyweight doesn't give away 3st against a giant, and the gaps above light heavy would be 14lbs, 21lbs then no limit, instead of just 25lbs then no limit.

 

[Never Mind The Pollocks]

Fury just tweeted:


'Tyson Fury ‏@Tyson_Fury 2m
Listen up pussy. Sign the contract. So we can get down to real business in the ring. 50/50 agreed 6 week ago! Lets fight & now mr jungle.'

 

[Trollsmoan]

Fury just tweeted:


'Tyson Fury ‏@Tyson_Fury 2m
Listen up pussy. Sign the contract. So we can get down to real business in the ring. 50/50 agreed 6 week ago! Lets fight & now mr jungle.'

Let's hope so, I know most of it's for show but nothing like a bit of bad blood to spice things up!...Haye will still win though!

 

[conormcfc]

Attendances and TV/PPV money are down significantly.

Mayweather/Alvarez later this year is expected to break PPV records.

Great choice of argument, the biggest star in boxing :/

Why not compare Andre Ward is one of boxings best P4P fighters yet can't even sell out a home town arena. Chad Dawson and Tim Bradley are no different.

-- Wed Jun 26, 2013 4:39 pm --

If boxing is doing so well why did ITV pull out? Why did Sky sacrifice half the budget to F1 instead of investing money into F1. Why did Frank Maloney go bankrupt? Why did Frank Warren do the same and open a new company to start again and even one for his son Francis?

He said PPV sales were down and I mentioned that the PPV record has a very good chance of being broken later this year. Considering we're in the age of free streaming I think it's a very good choice of argument. Record numbers of people want to watch Boxing in 2013. There have been bigger fights in the past that won't sell as much.

There have been loads of top p4p guys like Andre Ward in the past that couldn't sell out a phonebox, there was never a period where every single top fighter was a draw. Doesn't mean the sport is waning in popularity because certain fighters don't have pulling power.

Just look at this forum. 5 pages generated for 2 good-not-great domestic fighters possibly fighting later on in the year, which won't even be for a title. Then there's a thread about this Saturday's UFC event on the first page, a card in which arguably the greatest MMA fighter of all time is fighting on. 3 pages of discussion thus far.

Boxing is fine.

 

[bluemc1]

Of course it would be better with one main sanctioning body, but I would welcome more weight divisions at the top end to make it more competitive.

Get rid of cruiser as a name, leave light heavy as it is, intermediate heavy 13st 7lb, Heavy 15st 0lb and Super Heavy above 15st.

This would mean a decent 6 ' 3" heavyweight doesn't give away 3st against a giant, and the gaps above light heavy would be 14lbs, 21lbs then no limit, instead of just 25lbs then no limit.

i always felt Herbie Hibe had that problem, Hide V Haye now id like to see that fight, dont blink,

 

[Blue Til Death]

Its a sad indication of how boxing is these days when a lump like fury tries to dictate those ridiculous terms to an ex world champion at two weights.
All it says is, I do not fancy fighting you because you will beat me, fury is an ok boxer at a nationwide level but even in these talent barren times, he's still nowhere near today's upper eschelon of mediocrity.
He should stick to fighting bums for a while then semi retirement watching people being sick on the waltza's.....Lennox Lewis must be laughing into his beer!!!!

 

[NipHolmes]

Mayweather/Alvarez later this year is expected to break PPV records.

Great choice of argument, the biggest star in boxing :/

Why not compare Andre Ward is one of boxings best P4P fighters yet can't even sell out a home town arena. Chad Dawson and Tim Bradley are no different.

-- Wed Jun 26, 2013 4:39 pm --

If boxing is doing so well why did ITV pull out? Why did Sky sacrifice half the budget to F1 instead of investing money into F1. Why did Frank Maloney go bankrupt? Why did Frank Warren do the same and open a new company to start again and even one for his son Francis?

He said PPV sales were down and I mentioned that the PPV record has a very good chance of being broken later this year. Considering we're in the age of free streaming I think it's a very good choice of argument. Record numbers of people want to watch Boxing in 2013. There have been bigger fights in the past that won't sell as much.

There have been loads of top p4p guys like Andre Ward in the past that couldn't sell out a phonebox, there was never a period where every single top fighter was a draw. Doesn't mean the sport is waning in popularity because certain fighters don't have pulling power.

Just look at this forum. 5 pages generated for 2 good-not-great domestic fighters possibly fighting later on in the year, which won't even be for a title. Then there's a thread about this Saturday's UFC event on the first page, a card in which arguably the greatest MMA fighter of all time is fighting on. 3 pages of discussion thus far.

Boxing is fine.

Boxing is ok but it's certainly not healthy imho. The post I made about it's problems is becoming a real problem. I have followed boxing all my life and since I've had my own place I've got all the channels, have career sets and go to at least 5 shows a year. I watch Japanese, German, Mexican and the obvious US and UK cards. I tell you now boxing is poor in comparsion to the 90's let alone the 60-70-80's.

Right now politics are a major issue, PPV is a cancer for the sport and boxing bodies aka ABC's are preventing unifications and career defining fights. FFS the WBC will literally take the title from a fighter for unifying, then they have the silver, gold and diamond belts. WBA will have a champion, super champion and a fucking interim! That's without the WBO, IBF, IBO and Ring Magazine belts. If I ask who the champ of UFC is it's easy, you look at the champion and there is one. If I ask you who won the Portugeese football league it's easy, you look at the league table. If I ask you who the Champion at Light-Heavyweight is you can give me multiple answers. I ask who is the real champion and you can reply 'Dunno, a fight between them just hasn't come off' and there lies the problem. Lack of transparency and no eagerness to be champion.

Canelo Alvarez is the biggest ticket in Mexican boxing right now, him v Mayweather will be massive because of the stars they are. I seriously can't take that as an example of the sport being healthy. It's a great fight and will be massive but that's down to talent, marketing and simple geographic rivalry, Mexico v USA.

I don't think the sport will ever die but it will remain in an unhealthy condition and suffer immensely unless there's intervention and revolution. It needs a not-for-profit world body to enforce conditions and regulations but promoters and tv companies won't welcome that as the 'control' will be taken away from them. That really is the biggest problem the sport faces. We've been robbed of great fights because of it and it will continue literally until Bob Arum dies in particular in the GBP v Top Rank war. England isn't much better either with Warren v the world and fat Mick protecting his C5 tv deal.

UFC card is an average card imo. Headlines great but the rest isn't all that, the last two cards have been better imo.

 

[conormcfc]

Great choice of argument, the biggest star in boxing :/

Why not compare Andre Ward is one of boxings best P4P fighters yet can't even sell out a home town arena. Chad Dawson and Tim Bradley are no different.

-- Wed Jun 26, 2013 4:39 pm --

If boxing is doing so well why did ITV pull out? Why did Sky sacrifice half the budget to F1 instead of investing money into F1. Why did Frank Maloney go bankrupt? Why did Frank Warren do the same and open a new company to start again and even one for his son Francis?

He said PPV sales were down and I mentioned that the PPV record has a very good chance of being broken later this year. Considering we're in the age of free streaming I think it's a very good choice of argument. Record numbers of people want to watch Boxing in 2013. There have been bigger fights in the past that won't sell as much.

There have been loads of top p4p guys like Andre Ward in the past that couldn't sell out a phonebox, there was never a period where every single top fighter was a draw. Doesn't mean the sport is waning in popularity because certain fighters don't have pulling power.

Just look at this forum. 5 pages generated for 2 good-not-great domestic fighters possibly fighting later on in the year, which won't even be for a title. Then there's a thread about this Saturday's UFC event on the first page, a card in which arguably the greatest MMA fighter of all time is fighting on. 3 pages of discussion thus far.

Boxing is fine.

Boxing is ok but it's certainly not healthy imho. The post I made about it's problems is becoming a real problem. I have followed boxing all my life and since I've had my own place I've got all the channels, have career sets and go to at least 5 shows a year. I watch Japanese, German, Mexican and the obvious US and UK cards. I tell you now boxing is poor in comparsion to the 90's let alone the 60-70-80's.

Right now politics are a major issue, PPV is a cancer for the sport and boxing bodies aka ABC's are preventing unifications and career defining fights. FFS the WBC will literally take the title from a fighter for unifying, then they have the silver, gold and diamond belts. WBA will have a champion, super champion and a fucking interim! That's without the WBO, IBF, IBO and Ring Magazine belts. If I ask who the champ of UFC is it's easy, you look at the champion and there is one. If I ask you who won the Portugeese football league it's easy, you look at the league table. If I ask you who the Champion at Light-Heavyweight is you can give me multiple answers. I ask who is the real champion and you can reply 'Dunno, a fight between them just hasn't come off' and there lies the problem. Lack of transparency and no eagerness to be champion.

Canelo Alvarez is the biggest ticket in Mexican boxing right now, him v Mayweather will be massive because of the stars they are. I seriously can't take that as an example of the sport being healthy. It's a great fight and will be massive but that's down to talent, marketing and simple geographic rivalry, Mexico v USA.

I don't think the sport will ever die but it will remain in an unhealthy condition and suffer immensely unless there's intervention and revolution. It needs a not-for-profit world body to enforce conditions and regulations but promoters and tv companies won't welcome that as the 'control' will be taken away from them. That really is the biggest problem the sport faces. We've been robbed of great fights because of it and it will continue literally until Bob Arum dies in particular in the GBP v Top Rank war. England isn't much better either with Warren v the world and fat Mick protecting his C5 tv deal.

UFC card is an average card imo. Headlines great but the rest isn't all that, the last two cards have been better imo.

I'm not arguing that Boxing isn't less entertaining as in previous era's, or that the sport doesn't have any problems. I'm just saying that this notion of Boxing losing it's appeal and that it's somehow going to die out as a popular sport is a false one. There's probably just as many people watching it now as there were 10 years ago, if not more.

People said it was dying once Mike Tyson was past it, then Roy Jones and Oscar came along. Then people said the same when those 2 were coming to an end before Mayweather/Pacquiao became PPV stars. Someone will always break through and be the new star, such is the global/historical/cultural appeal of a sport like Boxing.

 

[argyle]

Mayweather/Alvarez later this year is expected to break PPV records.

Great choice of argument, the biggest star in boxing :/

Why not compare Andre Ward is one of boxings best P4P fighters yet can't even sell out a home town arena. Chad Dawson and Tim Bradley are no different.

-- Wed Jun 26, 2013 4:39 pm --

If boxing is doing so well why did ITV pull out? Why did Sky sacrifice half the budget to F1 instead of investing money into F1. Why did Frank Maloney go bankrupt? Why did Frank Warren do the same and open a new company to start again and even one for his son Francis?

He said PPV sales were down and I mentioned that the PPV record has a very good chance of being broken later this year. Considering we're in the age of free streaming I think it's a very good choice of argument. Record numbers of people want to watch Boxing in 2013. There have been bigger fights in the past that won't sell as much.

There have been loads of top p4p guys like Andre Ward in the past that couldn't sell out a phonebox, there was never a period where every single top fighter was a draw. Doesn't mean the sport is waning in popularity because certain fighters don't have pulling power.

Just look at this forum. 5 pages generated for 2 good-not-great domestic fighters possibly fighting later on in the year, which won't even be for a title. Then there's a thread about this Saturday's UFC event on the first page, a card in which arguably the greatest MMA fighter of all time is fighting on. 3 pages of discussion thus far.

Boxing is fine.

The reason why there is few pages on the UFC thread is because MMA hasn't taken off in this country, party down to a lack of a good tv deal so the exposure it needs isn't there, so many people still view the sport as cage fighting.

Boxing isn't dying, but it should be doing much better than it is.

Sky hasn't been good for it, they have the friday night fight nights and that's it. There's no background programming showing the backgrounds of fighters and their personalities.

That's why it takes idiotic trolling from Fury to create interest.

 

[leighton]

Boxing is fine. You just got to look at the grass roots in the UK and Ireland. Over here we could argue we have the best amateur boxers around in the past few years. I am on about the fighters who have just turned pro but there is a load of talented fighters out there who will step up and turn pro in the coming years and if they are as good as they were in the amateurs then they will be contending in the Pros.

Also with the Boxing World series these fighters get the benefit of fighting without headgear and for I think 5 to 6 rounds cant remember which will gear them up for the pros and they could well start pro fighting with 6 round fights instead of 4 rounds.

As for Fury I mentioned it on the main boxing tread its madness. I think Fury has his Channel 5 contract. Haye has his Sky contract. IF I was Fury stay away. Hes got a big gob on him its clear to see that. To call out Haye and then demand what he demanded is crazy. No wonder that Haye and his team are saying get the fuck a 50-50 deal with Haye is a huge deal for Fury in a big PPV fight. Saying that I dont think Channel 5 will like the fight going to Sky.