It's Quiet 32 - enter at own risk

Dribble said:
I disagree. You can only play against what's in front of you, & in that respect VVD excelled in Scotland & continued that form into the PL.

At only £8m, surely he was worth the risk?
Click to expand...
I remember when VVD was at Celtic with Celtic, posters saying we should get him, saying he was better than Denayer.
Edit maybe @Neville Kneville was one of them?
 
Plain Speaking said:
I remember when VVD was at Celtic with Celtic, posters saying we should get him, saying he was better than Denayer.
Edit maybe @Neville Kneville was one of them?
Click to expand...

Both showed great potential & had work to do. Perfect to come into our squad & learn it.

In fact if you could go back in time & sign them up, they would be perfect to come into this squad.
 
I wonder whether some clubs - like the Rags - whether they actually have the global scouting network that they claim to have. Given some of the random buys they make sometimes it seems they watch a major tournament- see someone score a wonder goal - or put in a decent shift and they sign them. A few players clearly played well for Portugal this week and they seem attractive -interestingly Felix was gash - but decisions on targets should be more considered and more in depth - as they thankfully seem to be at City. I’ll never be convinced otherwise but Real Madrid probably bought James on the back of 3 or 4 games at a World Cup - no wonder that didn’t work out. James anyone?
 
Dribble said:
I disagree. You can only play against what's in front of you, & in that respect VVD excelled in Scotland & continued that form into the PL.

At only £8m, surely he was worth the risk?
Click to expand...
In hindsight it's always obvious. Of course it ignores the fact that there are probably ten or twenty guys every single summer who if things break right for them also have the potential to be great. Just from that Celtic team alone people on here will tell you Denayer was just as good. You can't sign all the prospects, and the fact that Southampton got him should tell you it wasn't nearly as obvious as you're making it out.
 
nmc said:
I wonder whether some clubs - like the Rags - whether they actually have the global scouting network that they claim to have. Given some of the random buys they make sometimes it seems they watch a major tournament- see someone score a wonder goal - or put in a decent shift and they sign them. A few players clearly played well for Portugal this week and they seem attractive -interestingly Felix was gash - but decisions on targets should be more considered and more in depth - as they thankfully seem to be at City. I’ll never be convinced otherwise but Real Madrid probably bought James on the back of 3 or 4 games at a World Cup - no wonder that didn’t work out. James anyone?
Click to expand...
The rags policy is to see who City are looking at an throw lots of money at them.
 
cjn said:
In hindsight it's always obvious. Of course it ignores the fact that there are probably ten or twenty guys every single summer who if things break right for them also have the potential to be great. Just from that Celtic team alone people on here will tell you Denayer was just as good. You can't sign all the prospects, and the fact that Southampton got him should tell you it wasn't nearly as obvious as you're making it out.
Click to expand...

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/article-4161718/Why-Southampton-good-talentspotting.html

https://www.bbc.com/sport/football/37954971

https://bleacherreport.com/articles...on-black-box-informing-their-manager-carousel

Southampton has been recognized as a club that is able to spot and sign talent. This includes youngsters for their academy as well as players from other leagues.

You keep banging the drum that Soton signing Van Dijk was because they are Southampton. That is true but not because they were rubbish. They weren't when they signed him. I addressed that to you and you didn't reply or couldn't reply in the negative.

As I said Southampton are not mugs. At least they weren't when they signed Virgil. Some clubs are just better at finding young cheap talent and signing them.
 
better dead than red said:
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/article-4161718/Why-Southampton-good-talentspotting.html

https://www.bbc.com/sport/football/37954971

https://bleacherreport.com/articles...on-black-box-informing-their-manager-carousel

Southampton has been recognized as a club that is able to spot and sign talent. This includes youngsters for their academy as well as players from other leagues.

You keep banging the drum that Soton signing Van Dijk was because they are Southampton. That is true but not because they were rubbish. They weren't when they signed him. I addressed that to you and you didn't reply or couldn't reply in the negative.

As I said Southampton are not mugs. At least they weren't when they signed Virgil. Some clubs are just better at finding young cheap talent and signing them.
Click to expand...
I didn't reply because I thought your post was rubbish. Southampton are a good team and had a run where they were very good at scouting, but the point I keep trying to make, and the one you keep ignoring, is that teams like Southampton sign players like van Dijk at Celtic not because they are crap, but because as a club with less resources and lower expectations they are forced to take chances on more marginal talents. Top teams, like Manchester City for example, don't have a model of taking punts on cheap talent because they try and win trophies ever year and would prefer to sign proven commodities like a Martin Demichaelis (who by the way helped us win a Premier League), or sign top up and comers who have proven it at a slightly lower lever, like van Dijk at Southampton or like Sane at Schalke.
 
Last edited:
VVD wouldn’t look as good at City as he does at Liverpool.

Liverpool are under pressure far more often than we are, they generally have three defensive minded midfielders in front of him protecting him and defend far deeper far more often than we do. On the ball he’s “good” in comparison to Phil the Face or most other defenders but he’s not even close to Stones and Laporte at breaking lines and playing in midfield.
 
cjn said:
I didn't reply because I thought your post was rubbish. Southampton are a good team and had a run where they were very good at scouting, but the point I keep trying to make, and the one you keep ignoring, is that teams Like Southampton sign players like van Dijk at Celtic not because they are crap, but because as a club with less resources and lower expectations they are forced to take chances on more marginal talents. Top teams, like Manchester City for example, don't have a model of taking punts on cheap talent because they try and win trophies ever year and would prefer to sign proven commodities like Martin Demichaelis (who by the way helped us win the Premier League), or top up and comers who have proven it at a slightly lower lever, like van Dijk at Southampton.
Click to expand...
I'm not ignoring the fact that Soton signs players because they have a limited budget and to have success they and similar clubs need to scout well.

I do believe clubs like ours would be well served to dig a little deeper in the scouting aspect of the game and find players that are progressing well, playing at a high level in their league and in matches for their country. There's something to be said for that.

Buying ready made superstars isn't always the best option. Having 2,3 players that might be stars and a young player with potential to come in against lesser teams get good minutes and learn from the big names is, in my opinion, good.

I'm aware of Demichelis and when did I say he wasn't helpful to us? By your response to me you indicate I castigated him in some way. I'll just chalk it up to you not communicating effectively. As far as my research being rubbish, I'll explain it to you like I explain things to my kids, just because you don't care for my answer it doesn't mean I'm wrong.
 
better dead than red said:
I'm not ignoring the fact that Soton signs players because they have a limited budget and to have success they and similar clubs need to scout well.

I do believe clubs like ours would be well served to dig a little deeper in the scouting aspect of the game and find players that are progressing well, playing at a high level in their league and in matches for their country. There's something to be said for that.

Buying ready made superstars isn't always the best option. Having 2,3 players that might be stars and a young player with potential to come in against lesser teams get good minutes and learn from the big names is, in my opinion, good.

I'm aware of Demichelis and when did I say he wasn't helpful to us? By your response to me you indicate I castigated him in some way. I'll just chalk it up to you not communicating effectively. As far as my research being rubbish, I'll explain it to you like I explain things to my kids, just because you don't care for my answer it doesn't mean I'm wrong.
Click to expand...
To be fair, the Demichaelis bit was towards someone replying to you I believe
 
better dead than red said:
I'm not ignoring the fact that Soton signs players because they have a limited budget and to have success they and similar clubs need to scout well.

I do believe clubs like ours would be well served to dig a little deeper in the scouting aspect of the game and find players that are progressing well, playing at a high level in their league and in matches for their country. There's something to be said for that.

Buying ready made superstars isn't always the best option. Having 2,3 players that might be stars and a young player with potential to come in against lesser teams get good minutes and learn from the big names is, in my opinion, good.

I'm aware of Demichelis and when did I say he wasn't helpful to us? By your response to me you indicate I castigated him in some way. I'll just chalk it up to you not communicating effectively. As far as my research being rubbish, I'll explain it to you like I explain things to my kids, just because you don't care for my answer it doesn't mean I'm wrong.
Click to expand...

We do. I would say most of our signings are based on long-term potential rather than being proven commodities at the level we play at. Just because they cost 3/5 times as much as what Southampton can pay, just economies of scale. Even then, Zinchenko, Delph, Sandler, Luiz, Roberts etc. are all evidence of us signing potential early and hoping it works out, the difference is they are not anywhere near the level when they join of being able to command a spot in our side, whereas they would be at least competing for a starting spot at Southampton. The likes of Zinchenko & Delph can pull through, sometimes in unusual circumstances, but we just have to accept that to get into the best team this country has ever seen you are going to have to be something special and consistently so at that. At Southampton have 5 good games and get 40 points and you'll get a pat on the back and a £30m move to Anfield.
 
abu13 said:
I'm starting to think that next years transfer window will see really high fee's for average players who have mastered the art of twatting the ball at an opponents arm from 5 yards away.
Click to expand...

Sign me up for that, 3 year contract will do so I can perfect the art, otherwise I will stick to my milk round, any one for semi-skimmed?
 
BJL_City said:
We do. I would say most of our signings are based on long-term potential rather than being proven commodities at the level we play at. Just because they cost 3/5 times as much as what Southampton can pay, just economies of scale. Even then, Zinchenko, Delph, Sandler, Luiz, Roberts etc. are all evidence of us signing potential early and hoping it works out, the difference is they are not anywhere near the level when they join of being able to command a spot in our side, whereas they would be at least competing for a starting spot at Southampton. The likes of Zinchenko & Delph can pull through, sometimes in unusual circumstances, but we just have to accept that to get into the best team this country has ever seen you are going to have to be something special and consistently so at that. At Southampton have 5 good games and get 40 points and you'll get a pat on the back and a £30m move to Anfield.
Click to expand...
This is a really good point that I neglected to mention. If we bought van Dijk from Celtic he wouldn't have played just like Denyer didn't play. The players we buy for squad places (not the ones we bring into the EDS or CFG) have to be at a higher level than that and win playing time through competition. Also, it would be my preference that the limited opportunities that there are that do fall through the cracks go to academy products, not the type of player that Soton would scout. So yeah, there is a gap, but it's by design and not a failure of scouting.
 
ctid1894 said:
VVD wouldn’t look as good at City as he does at Liverpool.

Liverpool are under pressure far more often than we are, they generally have three defensive minded midfielders in front of him protecting him and defend far deeper far more often than we do. On the ball he’s “good” in comparison to Phil the Face or most other defenders but he’s not even close to Stones and Laporte at breaking lines and playing in midfield.
Click to expand...
THIS
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Unread Posts

Don't have an account? Register now and see fewer ads!

SIGN UP
Back
Top