It's Quiet - a new dawn

[Thaksinssoldier]

So why has he stopped Gunn and/or Tosin going on loan then?

I get the impression Tosin was acting the dick about the new contract and the club decided to let him rot tbh.

 

[onceabluealways]

I think we're ignoring the point somewhat, regardless if the talent is being picked up, improving etc, there is still a transitional problem. I was with an ex player on Sunday who hit the nail on the head to a degree, his stance was that no manager is going to give these kids a chance unless they're already at the level required, not because the lack of potential but because results dictate weather they keep there job or not.....

Let's see if pep can be as good as his word and get promoting, personally though i can't see it, you listen to the consensus of the fans and it's 'buy, buy, buy', we want ready made success and that means spending, I hope I'm wrong and we see some of this talent being developed in the 1st team squad!

There are pressures but there are also opportunities which Pep seems to have ignored - Huddersfield at home was a prime example - look at the subs he brought on when the game was won. Fernando etc. whenever Garcia has played alongside Fernando he has been the better player. Pep could have quite easily had a few youngsters on the bench that night and brought them on with no real pressure. If we had not been winning comfortably then why the hell would you want to bring Fernando on, he's certainly no game changer.

 

[blueparrot]

The problem with that is Guardiola's job will never be as secure as it is this season.

My biggest gripe with his youth policy to date is that he's stopped players taking loans, only to say midway through the season that he can't trust the kids without them having played in front of big crowds in professional games. So why has he stopped Gunn and/or Tosin going on loan then? None of them have played a single minute since the January window either, so he could have loaned Gunn & Garcia then too.

According to Henry Winter Maffeo was loaned out after the United game because he played well, but they thought he was caught out of position far too often...so he sent him to his brother's club where he plays as a wingback in a 343 - is that going to help him have better defensive positioning?

A balance can be struck between promoting the kids and buying. RB is the perfect example, we can buy a brilliant first choice RB and have someone like Maffeo come in as understudy, I've just reached the point with Guardiola where he is going to have to start delivering on the academy side or people are going to lose faith in that side of his reputation quite quickly, starting with the kids in the u16's and u18's who are being asked to sign new deals.

Agree with all that, but Spurs is an interesting situation they are now at a point were they need to push on and win something and compete in the c/l. To do that they need to keep their best players and bring quality into their squad that want games, that's going to block their younger players progress and first team chances, which is were we have been the last few years, as have Chelsea. It is true though that Gunn and Garcia would have been better loaned, it worked out for Kane, and playing at a lower level for Alli.

 

[moomba]

So why has he stopped Gunn and/or Tosin going on loan then?

You don't loan someone out with 6 months left on their contract unless you've given up on them. Gunn was a real head scratcher though, you wonder just how his game could have developed this season.

 

[Zin 'messiah' Zimmer]

The problem with that is Guardiola's job will never be as secure as it is this season.

My biggest gripe with his youth policy to date is that he's stopped players taking loans, only to say midway through the season that he can't trust the kids without them having played in front of big crowds in professional games. So why has he stopped Gunn and/or Tosin going on loan then? None of them have played a single minute since the January window either, so he could have loaned Gunn & Garcia then too.

According to Henry Winter Maffeo was loaned out after the United game because he played well, but they thought he was caught out of position far too often...so he sent him to his brother's club where he plays as a wingback in a 343 - is that going to help him have better defensive positioning?

A balance can be struck between promoting the kids and buying. RB is the perfect example, we can buy a brilliant first choice RB and have someone like Maffeo come in as understudy, I've just reached the point with Guardiola where he is going to have to start delivering on the academy side or people are going to lose faith in that side of his reputation quite quickly, starting with the kids in the u16's and u18's who are being asked to sign new deals.

He's missed a big opportunity, agreed, but the minimum from the club will be to secure top 4, I personally feel he had the intentions to blood a few but the size of the task has taken him by surprise... it's apparent he is developing control of the club, more so than he ever had at Barca or Bayern, this in itself could create issues further down the line, however, the point is that with that control he will make decisions more pragmatically....

Fielding Fernando over an academy prospect may not make sense initially, it does though financially, especially if we are looking at long term....

If ever a guy deserves the benefit of the doubt, it's pep, let's revisit this in 12 months and hopefully start joining the dots!

 

[domalino]

You don't loan someone out with 6 months left on their contract unless you've given up on them. Gunn was a real head scratcher though, you wonder just how his game could have developed this season.

12 months, I didn't say he should loan Adarabioyo in January. He's clearly made up his mind to leave, at least if he had a decent loan we'd get a better tribunal fee for him when he does go, and hell, he might have even signed a new deal if someone sat down with him and laid out a plan for his future that went beyond "Hang around the first team and play some EDS games every few weeks for the forseeable future".

 

[kenny1312]

I think we're ignoring the point somewhat, regardless if the talent is being picked up, improving etc, there is still a transitional problem. I was with an ex player on Sunday who hit the nail on the head to a degree, his stance was that no manager is going to give these kids a chance unless they're already at the level required, not because the lack of potential but because results dictate weather they keep there job or not.....

Let's see if pep can be as good as his word and get promoting, personally though i can't see it, you listen to the consensus of the fans and it's 'buy, buy, buy', we want ready made success and that means spending, I hope I'm wrong and we see some of this talent being developed in the 1st team squad!

Think another problem is we expect these kids to be ready at 18/19 or even 16/17 in Sancho and Fodens case, when the reality is you have to be one of the best in the world at that age to be playing regularly in a top 4 team.
Most players develop a little slower and are ready at around 23/24 after having 100+ games under their belt. Would Silva have been in our 1st team at 18? I personally doubt it but by the time we bought him at 24 he was ready.
Have we got the patience to let these lads develop with us or do we sell with buy back clauses and let them develop elsewhere?

 

[moomba]

12 months, I didn't say he should loan Adarabioyo in January. He's clearly made up his mind to leave, at least if he had a decent loan we'd get a better tribunal fee for him when he does go, and hell, he might have even signed a new deal if someone sat down with him and laid out a plan for his future that went beyond "Hang around the first team and play some EDS games every few weeks for the forseeable future".

Even 12 months I wouldn't do it. I can see what you're saying about his value if he does play games, also see what you're saying about laying out a plan (something that seems to be lacking at the moment). But I think the best thing for us is him signing a new contract and the best way of doing that is having him around the club.

 

[domalino]

Even 12 months I wouldn't do it. I can see what you're saying about his value if he does play games, also see what you're saying about laying out a plan (something that seems to be lacking at the moment). But I think the best thing for us is him signing a new contract and the best way of doing that is having him around the club.

If anything, I think him being at the club and not even getting close to playing for the last 7 months of his contract was the worst possible way of convincing him to sign a new deal.

Literally anything else would have been better.

Anyway it seems it's all redundant now, all the latest signs point to him being out the door.

 

[waspish]

Err, no. The coaches don't get the money the owners do, and the coaches stop getting to work with a player who they've developed and who they rate. Plus this wasn't a conversation to a newspaper journalist. It was one of their youth coaches on a podcast about GK's talking about GK's including Pickford.

Fair enough you put me right.

 

[Neville Kneville]

The only club in history who demands that kids be as good as the first team pros before playing them, is this version of City. With Chelsea slightly behind.

Most, including the rags, just play them. And it usually helps, whether they make it or not (most don't but one or two excel).And it never harms their chances.

Hopefully Pep can do that next season as his first season was just a hotchpotch & he had no time to work on stuff properly.

If he also falls to the chequebook obsession, like Mancini & Pellegrini, then I'm not really sure what the point was, in getting him. It appeared to be that the club was being setup to play in his style, precisely so he could bring through young players as well as make signings.

I still believe he will but if he doesn't, I'll probably join the armchair crew.

 

[Neville Kneville]

Ok, so you've exaggerated everything I said to make out I've advised to go out and kick / elbow heads all over the show
Im talking gamesmanship, knowing where to make a foul, where to take the opportunity of a yellow and when not to.
Raking your studs down the oppositions ankle is dirty, but they did it 15 mins into the game with the centre half's first tackle of the game
Say what you want, they walked the tight rope and gambled with the refs temper, and it worked. Silva went off and we lost control of the flow of the game

Calling my opinion, which you have weirdly over-egged, bollocks; just screams that you think you're right with no real basis.
The tears shed over some agenda is just pathetic. That ball was bloody close to going out, and I am certain if it was at our end, he would have flagged it out because to him it probably was, the lino is a human

I dont agree the ref cheated this weekend, he was just poor and the game and stage was too big for him

Walker would not get booked with his first challenge, again thats a presumption based on wanting to blame the refs for our flaws and lack of leadership in the side
He would be an excellent signing, prick or not.

Maybe he would, be we pick up as many or more fouls than the oppo every game. We wil not get away with 'bending' the rules. And we were not 'bullied' by Arsenal, we were fouled by them. Mainly because we had the ball. We could of course give them the ball, then perhaps we could bully them ?

 

[mattcity5]

Spot on about ages @kenny1312 .

In terms of right-backs, I wouldn't be surprised if we buy big and Maffeo gets another year out on loan. In the meantime, Denayer gets one year to prove he can do it as backup right-back, with possibly chances at centre-back on occasions too. Okay Sunderland have been garbage, but he is a few years older and has some Premiership experience.

In terms of keepers, I wonder if Pickford does happen, maybe Gunn gets a year on loan at Sunderland replacing him? Maybe Bravo and Pickford share the spot this year, which gives Pickford the chance to learn from somebody who is excellent at the footballing side of things. Then at the end of next season, Bravo leaves and Pickford and Gunn fight it out for the number 1 spot.

Personally I'd also like to see Nacho get a year on loan at Bournemouth. Fairly sure he's get a lot of game time and they play decent football, so would give him good experience and let us know if he's up to it.

 

[BillyShears]

Fair enough you put me right.

ha. no worries! i sort of wish i'd never posted anything about anything yesterday as i've had so much stick and so many people calling me a liar that I know how Tolmie and those guys feel!

 

[BAB.DAB]

ha. no worries! i sort of wish i'd never posted anything about anything yesterday as i've had so much stick and so many people calling me a liar that I know how Tolmie and those guys feel!

Thanks for sharing your info
Some of us appreciate your info and opinions

 

[Danny_Johnson4]

Maybe he would, be we pick up as many or more fouls than the oppo every game. We wil not get away with 'bending' the rules. And we were not 'bullied' by Arsenal, we were fouled by them. Mainly because we had the ball. We could of course give them the ball, then perhaps we could bully them ?

Embarrassing. I expect you hope united will allow us to pass and tap the ball around midfield tomorrow and hope we can engage in a non contact sport and hope to win the 'right' way.
We commit stupid fouls in stupid areas because we are naive. We were mentally pick pocketed by Arsenal on Sunday and your stat clogging just confirms it. How did they win the game then? Do fouls score 2 goals to 1?

I suggest you go watch Netball if it sickens you so much that teams are allowed to touch our players.

 

[onceabluealways]

Think another problem is we expect these kids to be ready at 18/19 or even 16/17 in Sancho and Fodens case, when the reality is you have to be one of the best in the world at that age to be playing regularly in a top 4 team.
Most players develop a little slower and are ready at around 23/24 after having 100+ games under their belt. Would Silva have been in our 1st team at 18? I personally doubt it but by the time we bought him at 24 he was ready.
Have we got the patience to let these lads develop with us or do we sell with buy back clauses and let them develop elsewhere?

I'm sure City have the patience but the problem is the kids these days don't which is why even if its just the odd 15 minutes in games from the bench it serves a greater purpose. If we don't give them some game time, either at City or out on loan, the odds are we will lose them.

 

[himalayan_blues]

ha. no worries! i sort of wish i'd never posted anything about anything yesterday as i've had so much stick and so many people calling me a liar that I know how Tolmie and those guys feel!

People like you keep this forum alive. This place would be bland without you or tolmie. There are always people crticizing one or other thing. So dont get disappointed. There are 90% or more people like me who appreciate you.
So keep posting the info for us.

 

[flb]

There is no B team football anymore so it makes it all the harder for kids to come through a club , it's not a City problem it's a league problem - farming kids out to clubs who play a different system of football with different training techniques will mean more kids falling by the wayside at City, this league will be littered with kids in the years to come who came through City's academy.

It will have to be a leap of faith by Pep if we are to see the likes of Foden, Sancho and Diaz make it in the next two seasons, and to be fair to Pep it wouldn't surprise me in the slightest if Pep has some of these lads in the squad next season, cup games could be our breeding ground .

 

[kenny1312]

I'm sure City have the patience but the problem is the kids these days don't which is why even if its just the odd 15 minutes in games from the bench it serves a greater purpose. If we don't give them some game time, either at City or out on loan, the odds are we will lose them.

I agree we need to get them involved in match day squads and give them a bit of game time but for most players to really develop they need 100+ games. The chances are they're not going to get that at City and finding good loans is hard.
I watch quite a lot of the u18's and personally I'd be happy to go a few seasons without trophies to give the right kids a chance in the 1st team and let them develop. I know that won't be popular view but let's be honest we've not pulled up any trees in the last 3 seasons with the 2nd rate players we've bought in and yet we still struggle to give the kids any game time. I'm not advocating filling the team with kids but surely a couple with potential could have got 25 games behind them.