It's Quiet the £250m return

Where there are several clubs interested, I would like to see a Dutch Auction.
Start McAtee at £60m and come down. First club to bid gets the player subject to personal terms.
 
Anyone know how many players we have signed since the charges were announced?
 
WRicko said:
I don’t care what rival fans think I am just point out that people have very different options on our ability to sell at the best possible price in fact here has been very positive in recent times about our ability to sell. Until possibly Palamer. I think I specifically remember Buzunu and Gunn as examples.

We benefited from Angelino buy back

Do you think we are turning down higher offers ?


You mention Jobe Bellingham after mentioning Gittens again like Gittens he is younger again and assume has a longer contract than McAtee. Also we actually want to move McAtee on
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Their opinions are different and signficiantly less valid because they have no knowledge of the players, or at least not the same level as we do.

Angelino was what? 6 years ago? And we benefitted by about £5m and haven't benefitted from one since. meanwhile, everytime we include one, we sacrifice a good percentage of the fee to do so. how much have we missed out on by including all these buyback clauses on players that we never utilise? It'll be well in the multiple 10's of millions by now.

I accepted the fee would be significantly impacted by his contract in the very first sentence of my original post, but even factoring that in, Its still very cheap compared to the rest of the market.

Letting any young player that we aren't happy to leave on a free enter the final year of their contract is poor business in itself that's going to cost us a lot of money but that's a different issue.

He's 22, homegrown attacking midfielder, captain of the u-21 euro winning squad, motm in the final, and has featured for Manchester city's first team yet he's worth less than somebody who had a decent season for Sunderland in the championship? That will never make sense.
 
ninjamonkey said:
Their opinions are different and signficiantly less valid because they have no knowledge of the players, or at least not the same level as we do.

Angelino was what? 6 years ago? And we benefitted by about £5m and haven't benefitted from one since. meanwhile, everytime we include one, we sacrifice a good percentage of the fee to do so. how much have we missed out on by including all these buyback clauses on players that we never utilise? It'll be well in the multiple 10's of millions by now.

I accepted the fee would be significantly impacted by his contract in the very first sentence of my original post, but even factoring that in, Its still very cheap compared to the rest of the market.

Letting any young player that we aren't happy to leave on a free enter the final year of their contract is poor business in itself that's going to cost us a lot of money but that's a different issue.

He's 22, homegrown attacking midfielder, captain of the u-21 euro winning squad, motm in the final, and has featured for Manchester city's first team yet he's worth less than somebody who had a decent season for Sunderland in the championship? That will never make sense.
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Yes but Bellingham 2 is clearly a generational talent - just like his overhyped brother.
 
ninjamonkey said:
Their opinions are different and signficiantly less valid because they have no knowledge of the players, or at least not the same level as we do.

Angelino was what? 6 years ago? And we benefitted by about £5m and haven't benefitted from one since. meanwhile, everytime we include one, we sacrifice a good percentage of the fee to do so. how much have we missed out on by including all these buyback clauses on players that we never utilise? It'll be well in the multiple 10's of millions by now.

I accepted the fee would be significantly impacted by his contract in the very first sentence of my original post, but even factoring that in, Its still very cheap compared to the rest of the market.

Letting any young player that we aren't happy to leave on a free enter the final year of their contract is poor business in itself that's going to cost us a lot of money but that's a different issue.

He's 22, homegrown attacking midfielder, captain of the u-21 euro winning squad, motm in the final, and has featured for Manchester city's first team yet he's worth less than somebody who had a decent season for Sunderland in the championship? That will never make sense.
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Your ignoring the very basic fundamentals of my posts.

First off have Harvey Elliot, Quansah or McAtee actually been sold yet ? So we don’t know what anyone is getting yet we only have social media and alleged journalists thoughts or apparent sources views of value.

Yet we have posters taking the 25 million as gospel. The apparent figure according to an alleged journalist is upwards of so could be 25 could be 30 maybe more.

Whilst we have posters assuming Harvey Elliot and Quansah might go for the maximum asking price. Perhaps without biy backs and sell ons.

How much knowledge do any fans have of the players that are city players but who never play a senior game ? Or who play in foreign leagues that we don’t watch ?

My point about sacrificing some money now for buy backs bonuses and sell on fees. The main benefit of this is not the buy backs where I mentioned Angelino because it was easier I could equally have mentioned players where we have a sell on or bonuses. I don’t know specifics of bonuses and I guess guess the obvious sell on benefits would be Lavia, Delap. Trafford and Gittens probably this year and this will be come more clear with time.

You have accepted age contract length and desire to sell play a part right ?

Also I don’t think you understand the importance of age. I don’t think there would usually be a difference between the price of say a 19 20 year old and someone who is 22 23 or maybe 24. Maybe even a premium for the older player who is experienced. Logic being still able to improve going into prime if they need to be sold at peak age if they are running contract down.

Now the emphasis amongst the top clubs and clubs in the premier league who all have money is to pay for potential which especially with forward players can start to materialize at 18 19 20

Have we turned down any bids ? Are we employing the wrong people ?

You seem to want to argue for some reason
 
Blue_Lightsaber said:
Current roster: 4 over on the foreign front:

View attachment 161222

Likely 4 that will be cut will be these:

View attachment 161224

But I know Pep will try to keep Gundo so I'm still not very sure on the 4th that leaves.. could be some surprises.
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Echeverri and Reis don't count. Both U21. At the moment we are on 19, so would need to get rid of 2.

My guesses would be Gundogan and Ortega.
 
Xhavenjoe said:
I think that was @ninjamonkey point.
Why lose money on buy back clauses when we don't use them?
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An academy players book value is £0 so selling an academy player counts as total profit in terms of FFP. That's why we were keen to get rid of academy trained players if we don't think they're good enough for us. So selling James McAtee for 25m would actually bring us more money than selling Jack Grealish for 50m as Grealish's book value is 50m.

It's why United are open to selling Mainoo and Garnacho.
 
Berti No Show said:
Echeverri and Reis don't count. Both U21. At the moment we are on 19, so would need to get rid of 2.

My guesses would be Gundogan and Ortega.
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they count on the CL rules, which most posters work from as we tend to squad build to those.
 
WRicko said:
Your ignoring the very basic fundamentals of my posts.

First off have Harvey Elliot, Quansah or McAtee actually been sold yet ? So we don’t know what anyone is getting yet we only have social media and alleged journalists thoughts or apparent sources views of value.

Yet we have posters taking the 25 million as gospel. The apparent figure according to an alleged journalist is upwards of so could be 25 could be 30 maybe more.

Whilst we have posters assuming Harvey Elliot and Quansah might go for the maximum asking price. Perhaps without biy backs and sell ons.

How much knowledge do any fans have of the players that are city players but who never play a senior game ? Or who play in foreign leagues that we don’t watch ?

My point about sacrificing some money now for buy backs bonuses and sell on fees. The main benefit of this is not the buy backs where I mentioned Angelino because it was easier I could equally have mentioned players where we have a sell on or bonuses. I don’t know specifics of bonuses and I guess guess the obvious sell on benefits would be Lavia, Delap. Trafford and Gittens probably this year and this will be come more clear with time.

You have accepted age contract length and desire to sell play a part right ?

Also I don’t think you understand the importance of age. I don’t think there would usually be a difference between the price of say a 19 20 year old and someone who is 22 23 or maybe 24. Maybe even a premium for the older player who is experienced. Logic being still able to improve going into prime if they need to be sold at peak age if they are running contract down.

Now the emphasis amongst the top clubs and clubs in the premier league who all have money is to pay for potential which especially with forward players can start to materialize at 18 19 20

Have we turned down any bids ? Are we employing the wrong people ?

You seem to want to argue for some reason
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I'm aware none of those players have actually been sold yet, this whole entire section of this forum is dedicated to what is essentially rumours and reports, I dont know what point you're trying to make by pointing that out. We're all commenting on the latest rumours and gossip knowing they're just that.

If a report is saying upwards of £25m i think it's more than reasonable to assume the upwards part doesnt suggest a large amount more, if it was signficiantly more, why wouldn't they say upwards of £30m or upwards of £35m etc?

I dont have an issue with sell on or bonus clauses. I said the buy back clauses in general, are costing us signficiantly more money than they've made us in recent times because we sacrifice additional tramsfer fee to have them included and never make use of them and so i wouldn't consider them a positive for us right now until that changes.

Regarding the age, I dont believe there's a major difference between a 20yr old and a 22yr old. Any player within the 18-23 age group I'd categorise in the same general bracket as a young player still developing. Thats also the same restrictions on age range for the u-21's

Definitely not looking for any argument and dont really see why you think that. you quoted my original post with a list of reasons going against my post, which is perfectly fine but I dont believe the majority of them are valid and have at least attempted to explain why I think that.
 
Berti No Show said:
An academy players book value is £0 so selling an academy player counts as total profit in terms of FFP. That's why we were keen to get rid of academy trained players if we don't think they're good enough for us. So selling James McAtee for 25m would actually bring us more money than selling Jack Grealish for 50m as Grealish's book value is 50m.

It's why United are open to selling Mainoo and Garnacho.
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We all know that.
What is meant is that we are better off selling McAtee for € 30 m with no buyback clause than selling him for € 25 m with a buyback clause
 
ninjamonkey said:
I'm aware none of those players have actually been sold yet, this whole entire section of this forum is dedicated to what is essentially rumours and reports, I dont know what point you're trying to make by pointing that out. We're all commenting on the latest rumours and gossip knowing they're just that.

If a report is saying upwards of £25m i think it's more than reasonable to assume the upwards part doesnt suggest a large amount more, if it was signficiantly more, why wouldn't they say upwards of £30m or upwards of £35m etc?

I dont have an issue with sell on or bonus clauses. I said the buy back clauses in general, are costing us signficiantly more money than they've made us in recent times because we sacrifice additional tramsfer fee to have them included and never make use of them and so i wouldn't consider them a positive for us right now until that changes.

Regarding the age, I dont believe there's a major difference between a 20yr old and a 22yr old. Any player within the 18-23 age group I'd categorise in the same general bracket as a young player still developing. Thats also the same restrictions on age range for the u-21's

Definitely not looking for any argument and dont really see why you think that. you quoted my original post with a list of reasons going against my post, which is perfectly fine but I dont believe the majority of them are valid and have at least attempted to explain why I think that.
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The point is no one has been sold and the suspect the McAtee fee will looking a lot better than people are suggesting and the Liverpool fees will basically look the same.

The McAtee fee will end up being 25 - 30 maybe more. Since it was said upwards of 25 and now hear up to 5 German clubs and some premier league clubs want him. We always include sell on and bonuses and possibly a buy back.

It’s not impossible to image us getting near 30 and then 5 million in bonuses and then a sell on of say 10% and get 5 million in few years. Meanwhile it’s not impossible the imagine Liverpool etc to get the fee quoted or maybe less

So our fee is affectively 10 - 15million more than reported whilst our rivals fees are the same or maybe less than expected which on 30 million player is 3rd or half the original price
Million play
 
WRicko said:
The point is no one has been sold and the suspect the McAtee fee will looking a lot better than people are suggesting and the Liverpool fees will basically look the same.

The McAtee fee will end up being 25 - 30 maybe more. Since it was said upwards of 25 and now hear up to 5 German clubs and some premier league clubs want him. We always include sell on and bonuses and possibly a buy back.

It’s not impossible to image us getting near 30 and then 5 million in bonuses and then a sell on of say 10% and get 5 million in few years. Meanwhile it’s not impossible the imagine Liverpool etc to get the fee quoted or maybe less

So our fee is affectively 10 - 15million more than reported whilst our rivals fees are the same or maybe less than expected which on 30 million player is 3rd or half the original price
Million play
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But you've just made all that up. Yes it could all happen, but there's nothing to suggest it looks even likely to happen. Something not being impossible to imagine doesnt make it remotely likely.

If you want to be sceptical of the widely reported figures, thats fine, no issue with that, but you can't then offer up more favourable figures that you've plucked from thin air as an alternative. Theyre even less credible than the ones youre being sceptical of.

Entertaining your potential scenario, for us to get towards £35m and then benefit from an additional £5m on a 10% profit on sale clause, he'd have to be sold for £85m. And if hes being sold for £85m in a couple of years, making £5m extra topping it up to at most 40m isn't going to make up for the fact that we'll have sold yet another player for less than half the amount they've then been sold on for just a couple of years later. Which lends back to the point I originally made about selling our players too cheaply.
 
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