It's Quiet Thread 15 - Txiki Blinders

[kun]

Hell, the janitor down the street has higher potential - meaning potential to become a first choice starter - so gifted that were he to come onto the xfer window - top clubs would pursue him as a starter.

Ludicrous.

Zin is obviously gifted and I really do want him to stay on as a backup. As starter though... no way. Do you really think that any top club - by-in-large - would trade Zin for their current starting LB? I do not - at all.

PSG, Inter, Lazio, Napoli, Leicester, Porto, Leipzig. Even Barcelona perhaps?

RE no DM in CL.
Who knows. But answer me this. If we did have a very gifted, fit, DM, would Pep have been more likely to field him in the final?

We had 2 very gifted, fit, defensive midfielders available in Fernandinho and Rodri but Pep chose not to play them.

FWIW I am not saying we shouldn't buy a left back, when we can. Shifting Mendy is the issue there, a player with an unenviable injury history and an extremely enviable pay packet.

Another point, City don't really do starters. Ok, Ederson and KDB are pretty set in stone but everyone else rotates based on form and fitness.
For example, who is our starter at RB? Walker? Does that make Cancelo a back-up? Cancelo is obviously starting quality. If that is the type of "back-up" you mean for Zinchenko then I guess fair enough. He, like 90% of City players, is not going to play every game.

Regardless, unless we get an unexpected offer for Mendy it will by him and Zin next season.

 

[Bentheblue]

Ludicrous.


PSG, Inter, Lazio, Napoli, Leicester, Porto, Leipzig. Even Barcelona perhaps?


We had 2 very gifted, fit, defensive midfielders available in Fernandinho and Rodri but Pep chose not to play them.

FWIW I am not saying we shouldn't buy a left back, when we can. Shifting Mendy is the issue there, a player with an unenviable injury history and an extremely enviable pay packet.

Another point, City don't really do starters. Ok, Ederson and KDB are pretty set in stone but everyone else rotates based on form and fitness.
For example, who is our starter at RB? Walker? Does that make Cancelo a back-up? Cancelo is obviously starting quality. If that is the type of "back-up" you mean for Zinchenko then I guess fair enough. He, like 90% of City players, is not going to play every game.

Regardless, unless we get an unexpected offer for Mendy it will by him and Zin next season.

You forgot Diaz, he starts every single game.

 

[kun]

You forgot Diaz, he starts every single game.

Right now. So did Laporte a year ago.

 

[jerseyblue]

>> Name me a realistic signing at left back who is better than Zinchenko and played at an equally high level or higher.
Hell, the janitor down the street has higher potential - meaning potential to become a first choice starter - so gifted that were he to come onto the xfer window - top clubs would pursue him as a starter.

Zin is obviously gifted and I really do want him to stay on as a backup. As starter though... no way. Do you really think that any top club - by-in-large - would trade Zin for their current starting LB? I do not - at all.
====
RE no DM in CL.
Who knows. But answer me this. If we did have a very gifted, fit, DM, would Pep have been more likely to field him in the final? What might or might not have transpired from there is speculation. The consensus football pundit opinion though is that we'd have been much better off with a DM in the final. And I tend to agree.

Every single point you've made is void with that zinchenko take...unless its a professional piss take, in that case bravo.

As for the post before this about transfer business....We did identify both Grealish and Kane extremely early in this process (how many months have these transfers felt inevitable?). Are the both expensive, yes. But these are two English players in the prime's of their careers and the values are fair.
Have we generally skewed to buying younger players who have high potential in previous windows, yes. I dont necessarily think that means the window has presented unique challenges, just that the composition of our team is a lot different than its been (and our needs, ie replacing sergio)...not to mention how close we've now come to winning the CL...ownership can taste the glory, now they mean to take it.

 

[FromPollockToSilva]

The thing with Zinchenko is, some people massively undervalue the things he's excellent at, and hugely overstate the areas he's least good at. That and they have a calcified view of his abilities from when he first got into the team and was very much learning the role on the job.

There are few players in the league in any position who are better at taking a pass under pressure and keeping possession, and they all also play at City. He will always show for the ball. His first touch is superb and his passing is exceptional. He also understands how and when to move into more central positions in a way that most career left-backs do not. Luke Shaw could not do what Zinchenko does as well as Zinchenko does it. Neither could Robertson, or Chilwell, or any other "traditional" left backs.

He wins more headers than any of those other players. He makes more interceptions. His pass completion is significantly higher and he is dispossessed less often. He also concedes far fewer fouls than his cohort too.

His only real downsides are that he isn't particularly quick, and he doesn't get many assists. Not much we can do about the first one, although as his positioning keeps improving we don't find ourselves being undone by sheer pace down his flank too often. Not getting assists is more to do with him playing largely as an inverted and/or deeper fullback role and therefore not really getting into crossing position very often compared to someone like Robertson. Also, not really having anyone to cross to a lot of the time.

Would other top clubs want him? Irrelevant if they're not coached by Guardiola. Nobody else is asking fullbacks to play the way Pep does. That said, I think Bielsa would love Zinchenko too.

 

[Lavinda Past]

The thing with Zinchenko is, some people massively undervalue the things he's excellent at, and hugely overstate the areas he's least good at. That and they have a calcified view of his abilities from when he first got into the team and was very much learning the role on the job.

There are few players in the league in any position who are better at taking a pass under pressure and keeping possession, and they all also play at City. He will always show for the ball. His first touch is superb and his passing is exceptional. He also understands how and when to move into more central positions in a way that most career left-backs do not. Luke Shaw could not do what Zinchenko does as well as Zinchenko does it. Neither could Robertson, or Chilwell, or any other "traditional" left backs.

He wins more headers than any of those other players. He makes more interceptions. His pass completion is significantly higher and he is dispossessed less often. He also concedes far fewer fouls than his cohort too.

His only real downsides are that he isn't particularly quick, and he doesn't get many assists. Not much we can do about the first one, although as his positioning keeps improving we don't find ourselves being undone by sheer pace down his flank too often. Not getting assists is more to do with him playing largely as an inverted and/or deeper fullback role and therefore not really getting into crossing position very often compared to someone like Robertson. Also, not really having anyone to cross to a lot of the time.

Would other top clubs want him? Irrelevant if they're not coached by Guardiola. Nobody else is asking fullbacks to play the way Pep does. That said, I think Bielsa would love Zinchenko too.

You could replace the name Zinchenko with Kolarov in this and it would hit the spot on most points.

I sometimes wonder if some City fans simply don't like Eastern European left backs..

 

[mccity]

The thing with Zinchenko is, some people massively undervalue the things he's excellent at, and hugely overstate the areas he's least good at. That and they have a calcified view of his abilities from when he first got into the team and was very much learning the role on the job.

There are few players in the league in any position who are better at taking a pass under pressure and keeping possession, and they all also play at City. He will always show for the ball. His first touch is superb and his passing is exceptional. He also understands how and when to move into more central positions in a way that most career left-backs do not. Luke Shaw could not do what Zinchenko does as well as Zinchenko does it. Neither could Robertson, or Chilwell, or any other "traditional" left backs.

He wins more headers than any of those other players. He makes more interceptions. His pass completion is significantly higher and he is dispossessed less often. He also concedes far fewer fouls than his cohort too.

His only real downsides are that he isn't particularly quick, and he doesn't get many assists. Not much we can do about the first one, although as his positioning keeps improving we don't find ourselves being undone by sheer pace down his flank too often. Not getting assists is more to do with him playing largely as an inverted and/or deeper fullback role and therefore not really getting into crossing position very often compared to someone like Robertson. Also, not really having anyone to cross to a lot of the time.

Would other top clubs want him? Irrelevant if they're not coached by Guardiola. Nobody else is asking fullbacks to play the way Pep does. That said, I think Bielsa would love Zinchenko too.

Yeah people don't seem to appreciate the vastly different things a Pep fullback does to any other. Other managers would look at Zinchenko and see a potentially top midfielder.

It's like almost no other manager in the world would stick Bernardo up front, but Pep made it work.

 

[Patientman63]

Ludicrous.


PSG, Inter, Lazio, Napoli, Leicester, Porto, Leipzig. Even Barcelona perhaps?


We had 2 very gifted, fit, defensive midfielders available in Fernandinho and Rodri but Pep chose not to play them.

FWIW I am not saying we shouldn't buy a left back, when we can. Shifting Mendy is the issue there, a player with an unenviable injury history and an extremely enviable pay packet.

Another point, City don't really do starters. Ok, Ederson and KDB are pretty set in stone but everyone else rotates based on form and fitness.
For example, who is our starter at RB? Walker? Does that make Cancelo a back-up? Cancelo is obviously starting quality. If that is the type of "back-up" you mean for Zinchenko then I guess fair enough. He, like 90% of City players, is not going to play every game.

Regardless, unless we get an unexpected offer for Mendy it will by him and Zin next season.

The thing is, Zin isn't a traditional left sided full back. He's a Pep Guardiola left sided full back. Different animals. .

 

[FromPollockToSilva]

You could replace the name Zinchenko with Kolarov in this and it would hit the spot on most points.

I sometimes wonder if some City fans simply don't like Eastern European left backs..

As more of a Kolarov fan than most, I get where you're coming from. He arguably had the inverse attributes to Zinchenko (great at crossing and getting to the byline), but people still largely focused on his weaknesses while brushing off what he brought to the team.

 

[mccity]

Kolarov is a bad example. Under Pep he was a centre back!!