Jérémy Hélan & City (Merged)

[lloydie]

Re: Jérémy Hélan & City (Merged)

as per TMQ, great post Dyed Petya, reason shows its beautiful face.

 

[samharris]

Re: Jérémy Hélan & City (Merged)

Quote from last paragraph;

So does this mean that the FA, having registered Helan to City, must, in refusing to take any action to rescind the registration, be casting doubt on what the FFF and/or Rennes is saying?


Its not them saying it.....its platini in my opinion..and hes talkin out of his ass.

 

[Rösler's Dad]

Re: Jérémy Hélan & City (Merged)

Good post by Dyed Petra, but our problem is surely that the FIFA clause under which punishment is meted out assumes the other club (us) is automatically guilty if it can be shown that the pre-contract signed at 13 is legal. Such contracts are legal in France (but not in other EU countries). So we are very dependent on the outcome of Hélan's case against Rennes.

There may be other legal routes open to us, but I can't see how we can avoid breaching FIFA's clause if Hélan loses his case.

 

[SWP's back]

Re: Jérémy Hélan & City (Merged)

Now I may be being stupid here. But if it is not legal to sign a contract at 13. How is signing a "pre-contract" any more legal when a pre-contract leads on, automatically into a contract. Surely therefore, they are one and the same?

 

[samharris]

Re: Jérémy Hélan & City (Merged)

Now I may be being stupid here. But if it is not legal to sign a contract at 13. How is signing a "pre-contract" any more legal when a pre-contract leads on, automatically into a contract. Surely therefore, they are one and the same?

if platini read that I know what he'd say..

SACRE BLEU..ET FUCKIN' ELL.

 

[fbloke]

Re: Jérémy Hélan & City (Merged)

Good post by Dyed Petra, but our problem is surely that the FIFA clause under which punishment is meted out assumes the other club (us) is automatically guilty if it can be shown that the pre-contract signed at 13 is legal. Such contracts are legal in France (but not in other EU countries). So we are very dependent on the outcome of Hélan's case against Rennes.

There may be other legal routes open to us, but I can't see how we can avoid breaching FIFA's clause if Hélan loses his case.

We may of course be heading into a situation that a) clarifies the legal status of young player in a european footballing sense
b) limits the powers of UEFA in terms of judging and UEFA and FIFA for punishing in these disputes c) draws French law vis a vi under 16's into line with the wider EU standards.

Taking another point if view, why should France Football Assoc be allowed to hold a contrary position to the rest of Europe? Why would UEFA allow a plethora of national rules on this when they are so limiting in terms of every other aspect of football?

(In terms of national law then City's spending may seem obscene in Socialist France but acceptable in the market driven UK so why should there be a euro wide standard for one but not the other?)

There surely can only be one set of laws and rules for UEFA to work from so a player who is 13 in france is treated in exactly the same manner as in england?

Could any young player invoke the EU legal position of freedom of trade and movement within the EU if he can substantively prove that (contract or no) his opportunities, level of skills and earning potential has been damaged by being forced to remain at the club in question?

Lets say he can show in real terms that players who compete the terms at the aforementioned academy and HAVE to sign for at least one year etc earn less in doing so can he not claim that (like Bosman) he should be allowed to level for a club of his own choosing?

 

[Dyed Petya]

Re: Jérémy Hélan & City (Merged)

Good post by Dyed Petra, but our problem is surely that the FIFA clause under which punishment is meted out assumes the other club (us) is automatically guilty if it can be shown that the pre-contract signed at 13 is legal. Such contracts are legal in France (but not in other EU countries). So we are very dependent on the outcome of Hélan's case against Rennes.

There may be other legal routes open to us, but I can't see how we can avoid breaching FIFA's clause if Hélan loses his case.

I disagree. In my view, that assumption only applies when the player breaches a contract apparently with a view to joining the other club. Where the player, at his own instigation, has already asserted that no contract exists and so he will refuse to be bound by what the current club are claiming to be a contract, he's already in breach of contract and it hasn't been induced by anyone - unless there's evidence that contact from another club predated the breach.

 

[Rösler's Dad]

Re: Jérémy Hélan & City (Merged)

Good post by Dyed Petra, but our problem is surely that the FIFA clause under which punishment is meted out assumes the other club (us) is automatically guilty if it can be shown that the pre-contract signed at 13 is legal. Such contracts are legal in France (but not in other EU countries). So we are very dependent on the outcome of Hélan's case against Rennes.

There may be other legal routes open to us, but I can't see how we can avoid breaching FIFA's clause if Hélan loses his case.

We may of course be heading into a situation that a) clarifies the legal status of young player in a european footballing sense
b) limits the powers of UEFA in terms of judging and UEFA and FIFA for punishing in these disputes c) draws French law vis a vi under 16's into line with the wider EU standards.

Taking another point if view, why should France Football Assoc be allowed to hold a contrary position to the rest of Europe? Why would UEFA allow a plethora of national rules on this when they are so limiting in terms of every other aspect of football?

(In terms of national law then City's spending may seem obscene in Socialist France but acceptable in the market driven UK so why should there be a euro wide standard for one but not the other?)

There surely can only be one set of laws and rules for UEFA to work from so a player who is 13 in france is treated in exactly the same manner as in england?

Could any young player invoke the EU legal position of freedom of trade and movement within the EU if he can substantively prove that (contract or no) his opportunities, level of skills and earning potential has been damaged by being forced to remain at the club in question?

Lets say he can show in real terms that players who compete the terms at the aforementioned academy and HAVE to sign for at least one year etc earn less in doing so can he not claim that (like Bosman) he should be allowed to level for a club of his own choosing?

I'd like to think so, fbloke, but I think that this may take some time, and a Bosman type case by Hélan may need to be won first. As the law stands, ludicrous though it is that a 13 year old can be forced to agree to a contract at 16, it seems to back Rennes's case and therefore an automatic penalty for our 'inducement'.

 

[fbloke]

Re: Jérémy Hélan & City (Merged)

We may of course be heading into a situation that a) clarifies the legal status of young player in a european footballing sense
b) limits the powers of UEFA in terms of judging and UEFA and FIFA for punishing in these disputes c) draws French law vis a vi under 16's into line with the wider EU standards.

Taking another point if view, why should France Football Assoc be allowed to hold a contrary position to the rest of Europe? Why would UEFA allow a plethora of national rules on this when they are so limiting in terms of every other aspect of football?

(In terms of national law then City's spending may seem obscene in Socialist France but acceptable in the market driven UK so why should there be a euro wide standard for one but not the other?)

There surely can only be one set of laws and rules for UEFA to work from so a player who is 13 in france is treated in exactly the same manner as in england?

Could any young player invoke the EU legal position of freedom of trade and movement within the EU if he can substantively prove that (contract or no) his opportunities, level of skills and earning potential has been damaged by being forced to remain at the club in question?

Lets say he can show in real terms that players who compete the terms at the aforementioned academy and HAVE to sign for at least one year etc earn less in doing so can he not claim that (like Bosman) he should be allowed to level for a club of his own choosing?

I'd like to think so, fbloke, but I think that this may take some time, and a Bosman type case by Hélan may need to be won first. As the law stands, ludicrous though it is that a 13 year old can be forced to agree to a contract at 16, it seems to back Rennes's case and therefore an automatic penalty for our 'inducement'.

As I understand it its not just limiting the options from 13 to 16 years its also hobbling the same kids in terms of movement beyond that.

Do the French still have chimney sweeps as well?????

 

[samharris]

Re: Jérémy Hélan & City (Merged)