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Jérémy Hélan & City (Merged)
- Thread starter Bluemoon115
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lancs blue
Well-Known Member
Re: Jérémy Hélan & City (Merged)
Helan can play LM as well.sam221985 said:this is the lad, I take it from the number 3 and 'the new Patrice Evra' that he's a left-back - so we know have Zander, McGivern and Helan all highly-rated and coming through at left-back....if they're all ultimately good enough to make the grade maybe one of them will switch to playing left-sided CB
Re: Jérémy Hélan & City (Merged)
If he joined us while at Rennes then its tapping up isn't it. If not why did he join us. Maybe there are no inducements but someone must of said "hey come and join us at city.". If thats legal then we are in the clear. We better get busy in the january window me thinks. This looks like its on hold until the kids legal case in France is finished. This preceeded the Chelsea deal.
This is bullsh*t.
The lad Helan is in dispute with the Rennes over the contract that he signed at 13 !!!! The Chelsea case is founded on the fact that Chelsea supposedly 'induced' the player to break his contract.
I don't 'think' City are denying that he is in dispute over his contract with Rennes - and the French guy from Rennes pretty much says we had no contact - City are however strongly denying that they 'induced' the player to breach his contract - and that is the key point.
This is about tapping up and stealing youth players from other clubs and City did nothing of the sort in this case. How are UEFA going to prove they did ?
If he joined us while at Rennes then its tapping up isn't it. If not why did he join us. Maybe there are no inducements but someone must of said "hey come and join us at city.". If thats legal then we are in the clear. We better get busy in the january window me thinks. This looks like its on hold until the kids legal case in France is finished. This preceeded the Chelsea deal.
coulsonblue
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Re: Jérémy Hélan & City (Merged)
Exclusive: City ignored warnings over Hélan's 'contract'
Premier League club in 'poaching' row claim player's ties to Rennes were void
By Ian Herbert, Deputy Football Correspondent
Wednesday, 9 September 2009
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The French teenager Jérémy Hélan was also a target for Manchester United
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Manchester City were told that teenage defender Jérémy Hélan was contractually bound to the French club Rennes a month before dismissing the claims and signing him for their academy.
Rennes, who have reported City's actions to football's world governing body Fifa and expect a transfer ban to be imposed similar to the punishment handed out to Chelsea in the Gaël Kakuta case, have a file on the case which includes the letter they wrote to City's solicitor George Davies on 27 January and another to executive chairman, Garry Cook, and chairman, Khaldoon al Mubarak, a day later, reminding them of the player's contractual obligations to them. Davies replied to say that City did not consider Hélan to be tied to the French side.
City remain confident that they acted entirely within the bounds of football law in the new case, details of which were revealed by The Independent yesterday. Legal advice was sought on the validity of the original contract, which Hélan signed at the age of 13 before heading for the French Football Federation's (FFF) famed Clairefontaine academy, and the response is understood to include the conclusion that it was void on at least three grounds.
Related articles
•Kakuta signing 'not child trafficking', insists Kenyon
But Rennes, who lodged the case with Fifa in March, insist that the contract Hélan was tied to was binding enough to make Manchester United abandon their pursuit of the same player, having offered Rennes a fee for him. The Rennes technical director, Pierre Dreossi, told The Independent yesterday that his club had held discussions with United about Hélan after the defender decided he wanted to play at Old Trafford instead of joining them after Clairefontaine.
"We had a meeting with Manchester United and they made us an offer about this player," Dreossi said. "We discussed the offer once but United [realised the position] and said: 'It is not possible to make a deal with you as you do not want to sell.' They said, 'fair play,' and it was closed but the player went in secret to Manchester City. Our letters to City said it was not possible to sign him as he was our player. City have played him anyway but they can't. It's forbidden. He has a contract with us and can't have a contract with two clubs. We told them that."
The loss of Hélan from the national youth system has been a source of more indignation in France than Kakuta over the past 18 months. United's initial approach prompted a robust response from L'Equipe, including the headline "Manchester pillerait Clairefontaine?" ("Is Manchester pillaging Clairefontaine?"). That was in May of last year when Old Trafford, rather than Eastlands, appeared to be the player's destination. Reports on the case at that time suggested that he was also attracting the interest of Milan, Newcastle United and Everton.
Ironically, Rennes are known in France as the club which provides the greatest incentives to buy young players from smaller clubs. But Hélan was theirs from an early age and they have certainly been supported within the country on this case. It is understood that the French football league, the Ligue de Football Professionnel (LFP), stepped in on their behalf when United had made their move.
The FFF evidently blundered initially when a secretary sent the player's International Transfer Certificate (ITC), clearing his move to City, to the Football Association by mistake. But Dreossi said that the federation realised its error and within a week had contacted the FA to point it out. The picture is complicated by the fact that Hélan is trying to establish in the French courts that his contract was void. This case has now reached a French labour tribunal after the French League commissions and the French Olympic Committee rejected his case.
Rennes insist the case is actually more clear-cut than that of Kakuta, whose move to Chelsea and the west London club's subsequent transfer window ban, has prompted the current examination of the signing of teenage players. While Kakuta's pre-contract agreement offered the possibility of a proper contract, Hélan's agreement guaranteed a two-year deal if he represented the France while at Clairefontaine. Hélan, now 17, was France's Under-16 captain, a year before Kakuta.
Fifa confirmed yesterday that the Hélan case had been referred to it, as has Fiorentina's complaint about the way that Manchester United signed their former youth player Michele Fornasier. No investigation has been started in the Fornasier case as Fifa does not have all the documentation. Fifa is also examining United's approach for the Empoli youngster Alberto Massacci. The Italian Football Federation has not granted an ITC and neither has the FFF in the case of Paul Pogba, whose move to Old Trafford has left Le Havre unhappy.
Exclusive: City ignored warnings over Hélan's 'contract'
Premier League club in 'poaching' row claim player's ties to Rennes were void
By Ian Herbert, Deputy Football Correspondent
Wednesday, 9 September 2009
Share
Close
Diggdel.icio.usFacebookRedditGoogleStumble UponFarkNewsvineYahooBuzzBeboTwitterIndependent MindsPrintEmailText Size
NormalLargeExtra Large
ABACA/PA
The French teenager Jérémy Hélan was also a target for Manchester United
enlarge
Manchester City were told that teenage defender Jérémy Hélan was contractually bound to the French club Rennes a month before dismissing the claims and signing him for their academy.
Rennes, who have reported City's actions to football's world governing body Fifa and expect a transfer ban to be imposed similar to the punishment handed out to Chelsea in the Gaël Kakuta case, have a file on the case which includes the letter they wrote to City's solicitor George Davies on 27 January and another to executive chairman, Garry Cook, and chairman, Khaldoon al Mubarak, a day later, reminding them of the player's contractual obligations to them. Davies replied to say that City did not consider Hélan to be tied to the French side.
City remain confident that they acted entirely within the bounds of football law in the new case, details of which were revealed by The Independent yesterday. Legal advice was sought on the validity of the original contract, which Hélan signed at the age of 13 before heading for the French Football Federation's (FFF) famed Clairefontaine academy, and the response is understood to include the conclusion that it was void on at least three grounds.
Related articles
•Kakuta signing 'not child trafficking', insists Kenyon
But Rennes, who lodged the case with Fifa in March, insist that the contract Hélan was tied to was binding enough to make Manchester United abandon their pursuit of the same player, having offered Rennes a fee for him. The Rennes technical director, Pierre Dreossi, told The Independent yesterday that his club had held discussions with United about Hélan after the defender decided he wanted to play at Old Trafford instead of joining them after Clairefontaine.
"We had a meeting with Manchester United and they made us an offer about this player," Dreossi said. "We discussed the offer once but United [realised the position] and said: 'It is not possible to make a deal with you as you do not want to sell.' They said, 'fair play,' and it was closed but the player went in secret to Manchester City. Our letters to City said it was not possible to sign him as he was our player. City have played him anyway but they can't. It's forbidden. He has a contract with us and can't have a contract with two clubs. We told them that."
The loss of Hélan from the national youth system has been a source of more indignation in France than Kakuta over the past 18 months. United's initial approach prompted a robust response from L'Equipe, including the headline "Manchester pillerait Clairefontaine?" ("Is Manchester pillaging Clairefontaine?"). That was in May of last year when Old Trafford, rather than Eastlands, appeared to be the player's destination. Reports on the case at that time suggested that he was also attracting the interest of Milan, Newcastle United and Everton.
Ironically, Rennes are known in France as the club which provides the greatest incentives to buy young players from smaller clubs. But Hélan was theirs from an early age and they have certainly been supported within the country on this case. It is understood that the French football league, the Ligue de Football Professionnel (LFP), stepped in on their behalf when United had made their move.
The FFF evidently blundered initially when a secretary sent the player's International Transfer Certificate (ITC), clearing his move to City, to the Football Association by mistake. But Dreossi said that the federation realised its error and within a week had contacted the FA to point it out. The picture is complicated by the fact that Hélan is trying to establish in the French courts that his contract was void. This case has now reached a French labour tribunal after the French League commissions and the French Olympic Committee rejected his case.
Rennes insist the case is actually more clear-cut than that of Kakuta, whose move to Chelsea and the west London club's subsequent transfer window ban, has prompted the current examination of the signing of teenage players. While Kakuta's pre-contract agreement offered the possibility of a proper contract, Hélan's agreement guaranteed a two-year deal if he represented the France while at Clairefontaine. Hélan, now 17, was France's Under-16 captain, a year before Kakuta.
Fifa confirmed yesterday that the Hélan case had been referred to it, as has Fiorentina's complaint about the way that Manchester United signed their former youth player Michele Fornasier. No investigation has been started in the Fornasier case as Fifa does not have all the documentation. Fifa is also examining United's approach for the Empoli youngster Alberto Massacci. The Italian Football Federation has not granted an ITC and neither has the FFF in the case of Paul Pogba, whose move to Old Trafford has left Le Havre unhappy.
CTID_92
Well-Known Member
Re: Jérémy Hélan & City (Merged)
i haven't had chance to look through the whole thread so apologies if this has already been said.
Am I wrong in saying that; Surely, if he has signed a contract with us then there would have had to have been a fair amount of legal paperwork completed which would need to be approved of by Fifa/Uefa/Fa etc??
if this is the case then why has it taken until now for all these cases to pop up, if Rennes weren't happy then surely the governing bodies wouldn't allow the transfer to go through until a court hearing has taken place?
i haven't had chance to look through the whole thread so apologies if this has already been said.
Am I wrong in saying that; Surely, if he has signed a contract with us then there would have had to have been a fair amount of legal paperwork completed which would need to be approved of by Fifa/Uefa/Fa etc??
if this is the case then why has it taken until now for all these cases to pop up, if Rennes weren't happy then surely the governing bodies wouldn't allow the transfer to go through until a court hearing has taken place?
mancity dan
Well-Known Member
Re: Jérémy Hélan & City (Merged)
Totally agree with you on that one. Very strangely quiet about it on SSN this morning too...
CTID_92 said:i haven't had chance to look through the whole thread so apologies if this has already been said.
Am I wrong in saying that; Surely, if he has signed a contract with us then there would have had to have been a fair amount of legal paperwork completed which would need to be approved of by Fifa/Uefa/Fa etc??
if this is the case then why has it taken until now for all these cases to pop up, if Rennes weren't happy then surely the governing bodies wouldn't allow the transfer to go through until a court hearing has taken place?
Totally agree with you on that one. Very strangely quiet about it on SSN this morning too...
Re: Jérémy Hélan & City (Merged)
And of course if the rules are so complicated, confused, conflicting or crap (nIfty alliteration eh) that teams of solicitors are needed and then it still remains a trip to court to decide it again proves UEFA are not fit for purpose.
Surely a governing body should have overarching principles with clear lines of control etc in place and updated regularly.
For football to have to go through such court proceedings is lunacy.
Roll on christmas.
And of course if the rules are so complicated, confused, conflicting or crap (nIfty alliteration eh) that teams of solicitors are needed and then it still remains a trip to court to decide it again proves UEFA are not fit for purpose.
Surely a governing body should have overarching principles with clear lines of control etc in place and updated regularly.
For football to have to go through such court proceedings is lunacy.
Roll on christmas.
Re: Jérémy Hélan & City (Merged)
From what I can gather the bit in bold could have been done with the ITC that was issued by mistake
mancity dan said:CTID_92 said:i haven't had chance to look through the whole thread so apologies if this has already been said.
Am I wrong in saying that; Surely, if he has signed a contract with us then there would have had to have been a fair amount of legal paperwork completed which would need to be approved of by Fifa/Uefa/Fa etc??
if this is the case then why has it taken until now for all these cases to pop up, if Rennes weren't happy then surely the governing bodies wouldn't allow the transfer to go through until a court hearing has taken place?
Totally agree with you on that one. Very strangely quiet about it on SSN this morning too...
From what I can gather the bit in bold could have been done with the ITC that was issued by mistake