Received the following email from someone yesterday, asking if anyone could shed any light on what has happened to Joe Hayes. According to Wikipedia he passed away in 1999, but I haven't been able to find anything to corroborate this. Any help much appreciated.
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Joe Hayes
- Thread starter Ric
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nijinskybell
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I guess there's a fair chance that Gary James would know the answer to this Ric. Have you emailed him?
Gary James
Well-Known Member
Joe did pass away a few years ago.
BUT..... someone was passing himself off as Joe a few years ago in London.
This guy was begging and was telling people he was Joe Hayes. He conned quite a few people out of a few hundred pounds.
He was definitely not Joe Hayes.
It was a long story, but the guy was never caught.
I thought the guy had given up with his con! The police were informed but the story was kept out of the papers etc. because of the distress it might cause his family.
The guy is obviously a good con man - he knows far too much info about Joe (he even knows the specifics of an injury).
The first time I heard about the conman I was at Maine Road setting up plans for the museum when I got a call. Basically, it sounded so believable that I ended up talking with a few old players. One of them confirmed that he had visited Joe in hospital shortly before he died and had also been to his funeral.
There's no doubt that Joe has died and that this man is a very convincing con artist.
BUT..... someone was passing himself off as Joe a few years ago in London.
This guy was begging and was telling people he was Joe Hayes. He conned quite a few people out of a few hundred pounds.
He was definitely not Joe Hayes.
It was a long story, but the guy was never caught.
I thought the guy had given up with his con! The police were informed but the story was kept out of the papers etc. because of the distress it might cause his family.
The guy is obviously a good con man - he knows far too much info about Joe (he even knows the specifics of an injury).
The first time I heard about the conman I was at Maine Road setting up plans for the museum when I got a call. Basically, it sounded so believable that I ended up talking with a few old players. One of them confirmed that he had visited Joe in hospital shortly before he died and had also been to his funeral.
There's no doubt that Joe has died and that this man is a very convincing con artist.
nijinskybell
Well-Known Member
- Joined
- 9 May 2009
- Messages
- 806
Gary James said:Joe did pass away a few years ago.
BUT..... someone was passing himself off as Joe a few years ago in London.
This guy was begging and was telling people he was Joe Hayes. He conned quite a few people out of a few hundred pounds.
He was definitely not Joe Hayes.
It was a long story, but the guy was never caught.
Speak of the devil! ;o)
Wonder why this imposter has chosen Joe Hayes?
laserblue
Well-Known Member
ric, may i suggest you ask the guy who contacted you what sort of accent 'joe' had. joe hayes spoke with a very broad lancashire accent that wouldn't have disappeared over the intervening years. my guess is it's someone who once bore a resemblance to joe now passing himself off as him. joe never got anywhere near an england cap.
Gary James
Well-Known Member
nijinskybell said:Gary James said:Joe did pass away a few years ago.
BUT..... someone was passing himself off as Joe a few years ago in London.
This guy was begging and was telling people he was Joe Hayes. He conned quite a few people out of a few hundred pounds.
He was definitely not Joe Hayes.
It was a long story, but the guy was never caught.
Speak of the devil! ;o)
Wonder why this imposter has chosen Joe Hayes?
I had an argument with a woman he'd conned about this. She wanted City to give her the £100 that she had given to him. She said 'had he said his name was Bobby Charlton of George Best I'd have known, but because he said he was Joe Hayes I thought it must be the truth'.
It seems he knows that few Londoners (and for that matter even Mancunians) would know what he looked like and that Joe is dead. So it's a believable story. One of the people conned claimed he had a Bolton or Burnley accent (she said they sound the same!), so maybe he is from that area and knows that Joe had that type of accent (he did have a strong accent).
Another person conned said that it was disgraceful how City treated their former players - I pointed out that he wasn't a former player, he was a conman, but she still didn't get it. She thought I/City were lying simply to avoid the issue!
nijinskybell
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- Joined
- 9 May 2009
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- 806
I suppose it 'makes sense' to impersonate one of the more 'anonymous' characters.
Gary James
Well-Known Member
We came close to catching him once (and I had a crazy idea of writing a drama about a crime-fighting football historian!).
He went to an hostel/drop in centre in London and a woman listened to his story and gave him £10, hoping he'd come back when her husband (a City fan) would be there.
He did come back. Her husband talked with him and became convinced it was Joe Hayes (asked him lots of City specific questions about the Cup finals; his goal; his injury; career details and so on). The guy knew enough to convince them that he was Joe and so they gave him another £10 and thought that would be enough to get him back.
They phoned City and ultimately spoke with me. By that time I knew that this guy had conned others. They believed City would help a former player in this situation and also knew enough about football to know that the PFA and other footballing bodies would help a player of that age and calibre who had hit hard times. So they called with a genuine desire to help and to get City involved.
I explained about the conman. Their attitude towards him changed but they still wanted to help him and hoped the money would bring him back. Sadly, it didn't.
My views on this guy vary - clearly he is a conning people and using Joe Hayes' name to get money and that is disgraceful. However, he is also someone in need of help. It could be that he genuinely believes he is Joe now.
He went to an hostel/drop in centre in London and a woman listened to his story and gave him £10, hoping he'd come back when her husband (a City fan) would be there.
He did come back. Her husband talked with him and became convinced it was Joe Hayes (asked him lots of City specific questions about the Cup finals; his goal; his injury; career details and so on). The guy knew enough to convince them that he was Joe and so they gave him another £10 and thought that would be enough to get him back.
They phoned City and ultimately spoke with me. By that time I knew that this guy had conned others. They believed City would help a former player in this situation and also knew enough about football to know that the PFA and other footballing bodies would help a player of that age and calibre who had hit hard times. So they called with a genuine desire to help and to get City involved.
I explained about the conman. Their attitude towards him changed but they still wanted to help him and hoped the money would bring him back. Sadly, it didn't.
My views on this guy vary - clearly he is a conning people and using Joe Hayes' name to get money and that is disgraceful. However, he is also someone in need of help. It could be that he genuinely believes he is Joe now.
Dr Mick
Well-Known Member
My dad tells me that Joe was quite short sighted but (of course) played without glasses.
If this is true then that's a fantastic record considering he was impaired in that way.
My dad held Joe in very high regard and often speaks of him in the same breath as Bert Trautman when recounting the glory days of the 50's.
Obviously before my time but Joe is clearly a City legend.
If this is true then that's a fantastic record considering he was impaired in that way.
My dad held Joe in very high regard and often speaks of him in the same breath as Bert Trautman when recounting the glory days of the 50's.
Obviously before my time but Joe is clearly a City legend.
Dr Mick
Well-Known Member
davymcfc said:this is crazy. what a strange life to impersonate someone from over 50 years ago who is now dead just to get the odd tenner here and there.
I suppose it's better than just sitting in your own p*ss holding a board up saying 'homeless and hungry'
I don't think anyone can doubt what this guy has done is morally wrong but you can't help feeling a bit sorry for him.
I suppose in a situation like that you have to do what you can to get by and obviously this scam has worked for him.
Maybe he knew Joe or has some connection with him in some way, to have choosen him. Maybe he saw him play or might even be a City fan who cheered on the blue's in the 50's. Maybe that's how he knows alot about him.
What ever the truth is, it is quite a sad story really. Quite a shame when you think about it.
he might have gone to school with him or summat you never know. people said this con man had a lancashire accent.Bellingham said:davymcfc said:this is crazy. what a strange life to impersonate someone from over 50 years ago who is now dead just to get the odd tenner here and there.
I suppose it's better than just sitting in your own p*ss holding a board up saying 'homeless and hungry'
I don't think anyone can doubt what this guy has done is morally wrong but you can't help feeling a bit sorry for him.
I suppose in a situation like that you have to do what you can to get by and obviously this scam has worked for him.
Maybe he knew Joe or has some connection with him in some way, to have choosen him. Maybe he saw him play or might even be a City fan who cheered on the blue's in the 50's. Maybe that's how he knows alot about him.
What ever the truth is, it is quite a sad story really. Quite a shame when you think about it.
daveduke67
Well-Known Member
Is this Joe cup tied?
Gary James
Well-Known Member
He's been doing this con for at least 8 years. At one point he was asking for £100 to get him to Manchester and then City would send a cheque back to the person who had given him the money.
I had calls from 2 people (or in one case the irate daughter of a conned woman) who had given him around £100 each in 2002-03.
He seemed to be very prolific in 2002-2005 but I personally had not heard anything about him for a few years. In 2004 when City received about 6 calls in the space of 2 weeks I suggested we put something in the programme and on the official website about it, but at that time a senior figure said it would be highly embarrassing for the Club. I argued (and lost) that it would be more embarrassing if this person continued to con people using City and Joe Hayes' name.
I had calls from 2 people (or in one case the irate daughter of a conned woman) who had given him around £100 each in 2002-03.
He seemed to be very prolific in 2002-2005 but I personally had not heard anything about him for a few years. In 2004 when City received about 6 calls in the space of 2 weeks I suggested we put something in the programme and on the official website about it, but at that time a senior figure said it would be highly embarrassing for the Club. I argued (and lost) that it would be more embarrassing if this person continued to con people using City and Joe Hayes' name.
I hope you don’t mind a Charlton fan contributing to your forum, but as I was the bloke who starting this, I thought I’d thank everyone for their contributions to shedding light on this subject. To answer one question, he didn’t have a noticeable Lancashire accent – much of my family are from Manchester, so I think I would have spotted this. He only stung me for a fiver, but it seems that others have been conned for much more, so I’m tempted to mention this to the police – maybe a bit heavy-handed, especially if he really believes he is Joe Hayes, but I wouldn’t want others to be caught out. At the very least, I’ll keep an eye out for him on Eltham High Street. Thanks again, and all the best for the season.
daveduke67
Well-Known Member
Charlton is always welcome on here - as long as it's not preceded by Bobby or Jackie ;-)
Good luck to you and your lot too.
Good luck to you and your lot too.
Dave Ewing's Back 'eader
Well-Known Member
Spooky! I put on another thread where somebody said they were missing someone or something, and I said I missed Joe Hayes. The real one mind!
laserblue
Well-Known Member
for those blues of a certain age i used to have one of those little plastic star badges with a photo of joe hayes in the middle when i was a kid. i was behind the goal at bury when a collision with bury keeper chris harker effectively ended his career. coincidentally, the previous season brian clough's career was also ended as a result of a collision with harker.
Gary James
Well-Known Member
Joe Hayes is one of a handful of City players I would love to jump back in time to see. He'd stopped playing before I was born but, along with Billy Meredith, Billy Gillespie & Frank Swift, I wish I could see them in their prime at Maine Road (or Hyde Rd for Gillespie/Meredith).
I believe Hayes has not had the credit or focus he deserved. His injury robbed him of the chance of surviving into the Mercer-Allison team. It would have been interesting to see if he could have properly made the transition and, maybe, gained more honours.
As it is, he has scored more goals in Manchester derby matches than any other Blue (actually he's equal with Franny Lee but he also scored in the only derby abandoned due to weather).
I believe Hayes has not had the credit or focus he deserved. His injury robbed him of the chance of surviving into the Mercer-Allison team. It would have been interesting to see if he could have properly made the transition and, maybe, gained more honours.
As it is, he has scored more goals in Manchester derby matches than any other Blue (actually he's equal with Franny Lee but he also scored in the only derby abandoned due to weather).