Gary James
Well-Known Member
I posted some of this on another thread, but here's the full article I did for the City programme in November 2004. It was written up as a Q&A piece.
John was a great guy and I really enjoyed meeting him and chatting with him. We were supposed to talk for about 45 minutes but we went on for about 2 hours. He was a very knowledgeable and interesting Blue.
IN SEARCH OF THE BLUES – John Benson
John Benson joined the Blues at the age of 15 in July 1958, making his League debut in February 1962. He went on to make 52 League and Cup appearances before being transferred to Torquay in 1964. Spells at Bournemouth, Exeter and Norwich followed, before John moved into coaching. In 1980 he returned to Manchester as assistant to manager John Bond. Farewell To Maine Road author Gary James caught up with him during October.
Let’s begin with your current activities. You’re still very much involved with Premiership football at Birmingham, do you still enjoy it?
I love the game and I still get the same buzz today – I’m almost 62 – as I did when I was 15. I’ve been in the game for forty odd years and it really is a pleasure to go to work. I enjoy working with Steve Bruce at Birmingham – he’s a good, genuine manager.
Moving back to your early life, you were born in Scotland then moved to Stockport at an early age. Did football play a major part in your childhood?
We moved when I was only young, so I lived most of my life in Stockport. My Dad played a lot of football, and we always used to go and watch a game. Every week we were either at City or United, and if there wasn’t a League game I’d be playing in the street. I played for both my primary and secondary school and I was always trying to learn. I’d watch the others and develop my skills. Eventually I progressed into the Stockport Boys side. Football was my life – still is – and I was determined to enjoy it.
Do you know much about how you were spotted by City?
There were so many teams, that scouts could easily pick and choose the games. Everybody played football and everybody wanted a career in the game, so being spotted was not the easiest thing in the world. The scouts concentrated on the town and county sides, so getting into Stockport Boys, then Cheshire Boys, was a major help, but it wasn’t a guarantee that you’d be seen even then. I think it was Charlie Gee who was doing a bit of scouting for City, that spotted me.
Once at City it was still difficult to get noticed. We used to have five teams in those days, and the Juniors played in Denton. I was working as an apprentice draughtsman and had to attend training on Tuesdays and Thursdays. I remember standing there looking around – there were over hundred at these training sessions and you stood little chance of getting a game at training, never mind for the Junior side. If you did get picked for the Junior side a card would arrive at your home telling you. I used to wait for the post, hoping.
Did you ever think about giving up?
Yes! I think that by the time I was 17 I’d got to play in a B Team game and that was it. I was going nowhere. I went to Stockport County and asked them for a trial, and they turned me away. Then, just as I was about to pack it all in, circumstance worked in my favour. There was a wing-half crisis with several players injured. I was drafted in to the B Team, and then after a couple of games, I was given my first team debut in February 1962 at home to West Brom. I’d already been asked by Assistant Manager George Poyser to turn pro. I was uncertain at the time, but I signed for £12 a week which was more than my father was earning. I played 14 League games that season. My career had turned around completely within 12 months.
When you made your debut did you expect to stay in the side, and did you feel that you’d made it as a player?
I had appeared in a friendly at Dundee on 17th February, four days before my debut, and I remember there was a lot of talk about me playing in the League. The West Brom match ended in a 3-1 win and then we drew 0-0 at Cardiff – so I’d played in Scotland, England, and Wales all within my debut week!
I did okay in those games but I knew I was not guaranteed a place – no one was – and I remember looking on the teamsheet each week to check if I’d been selected. The manager, Les McDowall, never told you you were in, you had to check the sheet. Actually, you would hide from the manager – he was an authoritarian figure and you simply did not communicate with him.
Do any games from your City career stand out as being particularly memorable?
My third game. We played Spurs and won 6-2. There was snow on the ground and I’m sure we were a goal up before any of the City players had touched the ball – it was an own goal. We were winning 6-0 with ten minutes to go and Jimmy Greaves netted twice. Bert Trautmann was our ‘keeper and he was superb as always. He really saved us at times. I was in awe of him and I remember I’d got on the pitch once as a fan at the end of a 1-0 win over Everton and he lifted me up and carried me off the pitch. An absolutely brilliant ‘keeper.
You eventually moved on to Torquay, was this an inevitable move?
During my first year or so of first team football, I thought I’d made it to some extent. In the back of my mind I knew I hadn’t and that it could all go wrong, but you try to ignore that. We were relegated. Les McDowall got the sack and George Poyser replaced him. Then the following year I was sold. Poyser wanted me to stay, but the Board wanted me to move on, so I had to go. I had a choice between Peterborough and Torquay, and I picked Torquay because they were so, so friendly and welcoming. They paid their record fee for me, and I had an amazing time there. I remember an FA Cup game we were 3-1 down against Tottenham with ten minutes to go and came back to 3-3. An incredible result for us.
Was life much different in the lower Leagues?
Definitely. One of the first I noticed was that they called the manager Eric Webber by his first name – I called him Boss. I couldn’t bring myself to call him Eric. It didn’t seem right. A year after I joined he was sacked and replaced by Frank O’Farrell. My life changed completely once he took over. I learned an awful lot from him. He was a man of great principles and at Christmas time he brought John Bond to the club. Suddenly we played some unbelievable football. We played a 4-1-5 formation – four at the back, with me as sweeper; one in midfield; and five in attack. We got promotion from Division Four and it was a superb time. O’Farrell was a great manager, and John Bond was an experience player who spent a lot of time trying to educate me, and I was keen to learn.
The relationship with John Bond seems to be a key feature of your footballing life. How influential was he in your career?
Very! I got on really well with Bondy and when O’Farrell left Torquay I wanted him to become manager. He didn’t, and then he had to move on. Eventually he became the manager at Bournemouth (1970) and he signed me. We had a great time there, then in 1973 he became Norwich manager and I joined Norwich in November 1973. I made about 31 League appearances. Had a spell at Bournemouth as manager, then came back to Norwich.
While at Norwich, the chance to return to Manchester came, was it an easy decision for you?
I was brought up in Manchester. I supported City. I played here. I had to come back, but it wasn’t an easy decision and it was a very difficult and heart-breaking period in many ways.
Bondy had achieved an enormous amount at Norwich, including two promotions, and we all loved the place. A wonderful club to be at. Anyway, he came in one day and got his backroom staff together and told us he’d been offered the City job. He also said that he wanted to take one of us – he didn’t say who – with him but admitted that Norwich wanted to make an internal appointment as well and that they would be speaking to all the staff individually.
I was working with the youth team at the time and that night, just as I was about to leave to go to the reserve game, Bondy pulled up outside my house in his Rolls Royce. He came in and told me he wanted me to join him at City. A million thoughts went through my head – it was my team from boyhood. I was a Blue. I had to go. There was no doubt in my mind, and I think Bondy knew my love of the club and that’s why he chose me. I was so excited, but I couldn’t tell anybody. I had to wait until it could all be done properly.
I went to the reserve game desperate to tell everyone, including my closest friends, but I couldn’t. Then one of the directors spoke to me and told em he wanted me to have the Norwich manager’s job! I couldn’t turn it down because I’d have to explain why, and I couldn’t accept because I knew it was wrong. My colleagues – and closest friends – were all delighted for me and one of them had been promised ‘my’ assistant’s job by the director. I was in an impossible situation, especially when I was taken out to celebrate. I couldn’t get out of it. When I got home I ‘phoned Bondy straight away, and he said he’d understand if I stayed. I told him I was still coming, but I felt awful. Extremely low, and I know I really upset my friend. I’ve never felt so awful.
I loved my time at Norwich, and had some wonderful friends there. Had any other club come in then I doubt I’d have left, but Manchester City was my club, and you can’t ignore that.
At City, you found a struggling club. Did you ever feel you’d made a mistake?
Not at all. The difficult time to take over is when a club is at the top winning trophies – you have to keep that going. There wasn’t too much wrong in truth at City. A little confidence was needed, and the players needed to know a preferred style of play. We’d been left some very good young players, but we also recognised we needed a few experience players, so Gow, Hutchison, and McDonald came in. Tommy Hutchison was the best pro I’d ever worked with. He was so committed, so dedicated and he had time to help the youngsters.
City’s League form improved considerably, but we also reached the FA Cup final (V. Spurs) and the League Cup semi-final (V. Liverpool). Considering the new signings were cup-tied for the League Cup, how do you explain that run?
Once you get a rhythm going it snowballs. The style of play was adhered to and the momentum kept us going. Each player knew his role and, if we had to change someone, the new guy would follow that pattern. We had a phenomenal run and, we all know our history, we came so close to winning the FA Cup and the League Cup semi should have been ours as well. This may seem a bit odd, but I think we overachieved in that first season. I remember Bondy and I talking about it. In some ways it set us up. We wanted to sign some great players but financial constraints limited our opportunities – Trevor Francis was bought and sold within a year – and we could never match our ambition for this club.
After Wembley there was a great deal of optimism but within 20 months Bond had gone and you were manager, was this a role you craved?
Not at all. I never wanted to be manager. I was too young. Too inexperienced, and managing City is inevitably an enormous job. You have to know your strengths in football, and I know that my strength was as a number two.
So why did you take it?
I had no choice really. Once Bondy had left, either I had to become manager or I would, in all probability have to move on. I had nowhere to go to, so I took the job. I kept my old wage – no increase – and tried my best. When relegation came I felt the pain and hurt all fans did. This was my club and I was manager when they went down. It was such a painful, horrible, experience, and I still feel that hurt today.
Inevitably, you moved on, rejoining Bond at Burnley, and in recent years you guided Wigan to the play-offs. Why, after the pain of 1983, did you become manager at Wigan?
It was another role I reluctantly accepted. I’d been working for John Deehan at Norwich, then Wigan until 1998. I was asked to take over but said no. I told them I was a good number two, but not a lucky manager. Ray Mathias took over and we finished 6th, but one thing led to another and I was asked to take over again in 1999. I kept saying no, but then I agreed saying I would only have the job for 12 months. I was still a reluctant manager. I called Bondy up and asked him to come in and give a bit of support. It was great and I enjoyed working with him again. At the end of the season we reached the play-off final against Gillingham. They beat us 3-2 with a goal in the last desperate minutes of extra-time – this was only a year after City had beat them, so for me it felt like they’d got revenge!
At the end of the season I was asked to stay on, but stuck to my guns. Nowadays I’m at Birmingham with Steve Bruce.
Finally, how do you feel today about the game you’ve been a part of since the age of 15?
I still love it. Sometimes I have to pinch myself because I feel like the luckiest man alive. I’ve had bad times, of course, but the game has been so good to me. I owe it everything.
John was a great guy and I really enjoyed meeting him and chatting with him. We were supposed to talk for about 45 minutes but we went on for about 2 hours. He was a very knowledgeable and interesting Blue.
IN SEARCH OF THE BLUES – John Benson
John Benson joined the Blues at the age of 15 in July 1958, making his League debut in February 1962. He went on to make 52 League and Cup appearances before being transferred to Torquay in 1964. Spells at Bournemouth, Exeter and Norwich followed, before John moved into coaching. In 1980 he returned to Manchester as assistant to manager John Bond. Farewell To Maine Road author Gary James caught up with him during October.
Let’s begin with your current activities. You’re still very much involved with Premiership football at Birmingham, do you still enjoy it?
I love the game and I still get the same buzz today – I’m almost 62 – as I did when I was 15. I’ve been in the game for forty odd years and it really is a pleasure to go to work. I enjoy working with Steve Bruce at Birmingham – he’s a good, genuine manager.
Moving back to your early life, you were born in Scotland then moved to Stockport at an early age. Did football play a major part in your childhood?
We moved when I was only young, so I lived most of my life in Stockport. My Dad played a lot of football, and we always used to go and watch a game. Every week we were either at City or United, and if there wasn’t a League game I’d be playing in the street. I played for both my primary and secondary school and I was always trying to learn. I’d watch the others and develop my skills. Eventually I progressed into the Stockport Boys side. Football was my life – still is – and I was determined to enjoy it.
Do you know much about how you were spotted by City?
There were so many teams, that scouts could easily pick and choose the games. Everybody played football and everybody wanted a career in the game, so being spotted was not the easiest thing in the world. The scouts concentrated on the town and county sides, so getting into Stockport Boys, then Cheshire Boys, was a major help, but it wasn’t a guarantee that you’d be seen even then. I think it was Charlie Gee who was doing a bit of scouting for City, that spotted me.
Once at City it was still difficult to get noticed. We used to have five teams in those days, and the Juniors played in Denton. I was working as an apprentice draughtsman and had to attend training on Tuesdays and Thursdays. I remember standing there looking around – there were over hundred at these training sessions and you stood little chance of getting a game at training, never mind for the Junior side. If you did get picked for the Junior side a card would arrive at your home telling you. I used to wait for the post, hoping.
Did you ever think about giving up?
Yes! I think that by the time I was 17 I’d got to play in a B Team game and that was it. I was going nowhere. I went to Stockport County and asked them for a trial, and they turned me away. Then, just as I was about to pack it all in, circumstance worked in my favour. There was a wing-half crisis with several players injured. I was drafted in to the B Team, and then after a couple of games, I was given my first team debut in February 1962 at home to West Brom. I’d already been asked by Assistant Manager George Poyser to turn pro. I was uncertain at the time, but I signed for £12 a week which was more than my father was earning. I played 14 League games that season. My career had turned around completely within 12 months.
When you made your debut did you expect to stay in the side, and did you feel that you’d made it as a player?
I had appeared in a friendly at Dundee on 17th February, four days before my debut, and I remember there was a lot of talk about me playing in the League. The West Brom match ended in a 3-1 win and then we drew 0-0 at Cardiff – so I’d played in Scotland, England, and Wales all within my debut week!
I did okay in those games but I knew I was not guaranteed a place – no one was – and I remember looking on the teamsheet each week to check if I’d been selected. The manager, Les McDowall, never told you you were in, you had to check the sheet. Actually, you would hide from the manager – he was an authoritarian figure and you simply did not communicate with him.
Do any games from your City career stand out as being particularly memorable?
My third game. We played Spurs and won 6-2. There was snow on the ground and I’m sure we were a goal up before any of the City players had touched the ball – it was an own goal. We were winning 6-0 with ten minutes to go and Jimmy Greaves netted twice. Bert Trautmann was our ‘keeper and he was superb as always. He really saved us at times. I was in awe of him and I remember I’d got on the pitch once as a fan at the end of a 1-0 win over Everton and he lifted me up and carried me off the pitch. An absolutely brilliant ‘keeper.
You eventually moved on to Torquay, was this an inevitable move?
During my first year or so of first team football, I thought I’d made it to some extent. In the back of my mind I knew I hadn’t and that it could all go wrong, but you try to ignore that. We were relegated. Les McDowall got the sack and George Poyser replaced him. Then the following year I was sold. Poyser wanted me to stay, but the Board wanted me to move on, so I had to go. I had a choice between Peterborough and Torquay, and I picked Torquay because they were so, so friendly and welcoming. They paid their record fee for me, and I had an amazing time there. I remember an FA Cup game we were 3-1 down against Tottenham with ten minutes to go and came back to 3-3. An incredible result for us.
Was life much different in the lower Leagues?
Definitely. One of the first I noticed was that they called the manager Eric Webber by his first name – I called him Boss. I couldn’t bring myself to call him Eric. It didn’t seem right. A year after I joined he was sacked and replaced by Frank O’Farrell. My life changed completely once he took over. I learned an awful lot from him. He was a man of great principles and at Christmas time he brought John Bond to the club. Suddenly we played some unbelievable football. We played a 4-1-5 formation – four at the back, with me as sweeper; one in midfield; and five in attack. We got promotion from Division Four and it was a superb time. O’Farrell was a great manager, and John Bond was an experience player who spent a lot of time trying to educate me, and I was keen to learn.
The relationship with John Bond seems to be a key feature of your footballing life. How influential was he in your career?
Very! I got on really well with Bondy and when O’Farrell left Torquay I wanted him to become manager. He didn’t, and then he had to move on. Eventually he became the manager at Bournemouth (1970) and he signed me. We had a great time there, then in 1973 he became Norwich manager and I joined Norwich in November 1973. I made about 31 League appearances. Had a spell at Bournemouth as manager, then came back to Norwich.
While at Norwich, the chance to return to Manchester came, was it an easy decision for you?
I was brought up in Manchester. I supported City. I played here. I had to come back, but it wasn’t an easy decision and it was a very difficult and heart-breaking period in many ways.
Bondy had achieved an enormous amount at Norwich, including two promotions, and we all loved the place. A wonderful club to be at. Anyway, he came in one day and got his backroom staff together and told us he’d been offered the City job. He also said that he wanted to take one of us – he didn’t say who – with him but admitted that Norwich wanted to make an internal appointment as well and that they would be speaking to all the staff individually.
I was working with the youth team at the time and that night, just as I was about to leave to go to the reserve game, Bondy pulled up outside my house in his Rolls Royce. He came in and told me he wanted me to join him at City. A million thoughts went through my head – it was my team from boyhood. I was a Blue. I had to go. There was no doubt in my mind, and I think Bondy knew my love of the club and that’s why he chose me. I was so excited, but I couldn’t tell anybody. I had to wait until it could all be done properly.
I went to the reserve game desperate to tell everyone, including my closest friends, but I couldn’t. Then one of the directors spoke to me and told em he wanted me to have the Norwich manager’s job! I couldn’t turn it down because I’d have to explain why, and I couldn’t accept because I knew it was wrong. My colleagues – and closest friends – were all delighted for me and one of them had been promised ‘my’ assistant’s job by the director. I was in an impossible situation, especially when I was taken out to celebrate. I couldn’t get out of it. When I got home I ‘phoned Bondy straight away, and he said he’d understand if I stayed. I told him I was still coming, but I felt awful. Extremely low, and I know I really upset my friend. I’ve never felt so awful.
I loved my time at Norwich, and had some wonderful friends there. Had any other club come in then I doubt I’d have left, but Manchester City was my club, and you can’t ignore that.
At City, you found a struggling club. Did you ever feel you’d made a mistake?
Not at all. The difficult time to take over is when a club is at the top winning trophies – you have to keep that going. There wasn’t too much wrong in truth at City. A little confidence was needed, and the players needed to know a preferred style of play. We’d been left some very good young players, but we also recognised we needed a few experience players, so Gow, Hutchison, and McDonald came in. Tommy Hutchison was the best pro I’d ever worked with. He was so committed, so dedicated and he had time to help the youngsters.
City’s League form improved considerably, but we also reached the FA Cup final (V. Spurs) and the League Cup semi-final (V. Liverpool). Considering the new signings were cup-tied for the League Cup, how do you explain that run?
Once you get a rhythm going it snowballs. The style of play was adhered to and the momentum kept us going. Each player knew his role and, if we had to change someone, the new guy would follow that pattern. We had a phenomenal run and, we all know our history, we came so close to winning the FA Cup and the League Cup semi should have been ours as well. This may seem a bit odd, but I think we overachieved in that first season. I remember Bondy and I talking about it. In some ways it set us up. We wanted to sign some great players but financial constraints limited our opportunities – Trevor Francis was bought and sold within a year – and we could never match our ambition for this club.
After Wembley there was a great deal of optimism but within 20 months Bond had gone and you were manager, was this a role you craved?
Not at all. I never wanted to be manager. I was too young. Too inexperienced, and managing City is inevitably an enormous job. You have to know your strengths in football, and I know that my strength was as a number two.
So why did you take it?
I had no choice really. Once Bondy had left, either I had to become manager or I would, in all probability have to move on. I had nowhere to go to, so I took the job. I kept my old wage – no increase – and tried my best. When relegation came I felt the pain and hurt all fans did. This was my club and I was manager when they went down. It was such a painful, horrible, experience, and I still feel that hurt today.
Inevitably, you moved on, rejoining Bond at Burnley, and in recent years you guided Wigan to the play-offs. Why, after the pain of 1983, did you become manager at Wigan?
It was another role I reluctantly accepted. I’d been working for John Deehan at Norwich, then Wigan until 1998. I was asked to take over but said no. I told them I was a good number two, but not a lucky manager. Ray Mathias took over and we finished 6th, but one thing led to another and I was asked to take over again in 1999. I kept saying no, but then I agreed saying I would only have the job for 12 months. I was still a reluctant manager. I called Bondy up and asked him to come in and give a bit of support. It was great and I enjoyed working with him again. At the end of the season we reached the play-off final against Gillingham. They beat us 3-2 with a goal in the last desperate minutes of extra-time – this was only a year after City had beat them, so for me it felt like they’d got revenge!
At the end of the season I was asked to stay on, but stuck to my guns. Nowadays I’m at Birmingham with Steve Bruce.
Finally, how do you feel today about the game you’ve been a part of since the age of 15?
I still love it. Sometimes I have to pinch myself because I feel like the luckiest man alive. I’ve had bad times, of course, but the game has been so good to me. I owe it everything.